SO I came to a realization...

[Daeglan]

So what do you do if say you encounter someone breaking into your home and you pull a firearm on them. what do you do if they surrender? You call 911 and then what? How do you not get shot when the police arrive?

[xdcolorado]

So what do you do if say you encounter someone breaking into your home and you pull a firearm on them. what do you do if they surrender? You call 911 and then what? How do you not get shot when the police arrive?

This is just what I would do....(although I would be curious to see what Mas suggests, that will undoubtably change my outlook on this topic). 

Assuming you drew your weapon and they did surrender (nice) - have them lay on the floor, face down, arms and legs spread - ideally you would have a view of the entrance the PD will enter through from here. If you are alone, I would just call the police (do not take your eyes off of the scum), explain to the PD dispatcher (explicitly) that "My name is _________, an intruder broke into my home by kicking in the front door.  I drew my firearm and the intruder surrendered.  No shots were fired.  The intruder is laying on the floor at the front entrance to my home.  I will be holding him at gunpoint until I see the police arrive at my home.  I am 5'10" (give description including clothing so they PD know who the good guy on the PHONE is).  At that time, I will follow the officer's directions and turn over the intruder to their custody."

[Steve]

xdcolorado is on the right track, but a bit long on the telephone part.  Here's the drill:

1.  Never assume that a "surrender" is anything more than a play for time and an opportunity to either escape or turn the tables on you.  Don't take your eyes off the person and don't get bogged down in any unnecessary talking.  While you are distracted trying to say the right thing, they will sieze the initiative.

2.  If the person surrenders, you want them spread-eagle on the floor, facing away from you, with youself in a position of advantage.  That means being where you can observe the suspect and anyone else (including the arriving police) and they can't see you.  Make sure that they are not on the floor in proximity to any weapons, either theirs or something they can improvise from your home.

3.  Call the police.  Keep all statements short and to the point--and do not get distracted from watching the suspect.  The FIRST thing you need to tell them is your address, and repeat it.  That way, if you get cut off, they know the location of the problem and they can at least begin their response.  It should go something like this:

"I am at 123 Main Street, 123 Main Street.  There is a home invasion IN PROGRESS.  I am holding one suspect at gunpoint in the (insert part of the house here).  (If there are any shots fired, injuries or need for an ambulance, report that also).  My name is _____.  I will try to remain on the line until the police arrive"

At that point, do what the dispatcher tells you to do, but do not become distracted from watching the person on the floor.  If you can't comply with any directions, say so and briefly state why.  Be on the phone when the police arrive and follow the instructions you are given.  Whenever you speak, do so in short, clear phrases.  Resist the temptation to be a motor-mouth, even though the stress of the situation will probably make you want to tell the whole story to the dispatcher.  They will want all the info they can get, but your primary job is to keep the suspect under control, and get help on the way.  The rest can be sorted out later.  They will want your description, but that can be done after the response has begun.  You MUST emphasize that this is a serious crime in progress and that you are holding a suspect at the scene.

Finally, if the suspect tries to escape, your best option is usually to let him go.  Don't chase after him, gun in hand, with the police responding.  That could go downhill quickly.

Hope this helps.

Steve

 



 

[Chris]

What Steve said +1... he's a former SWAT cop and knows what he's talking about.
Chris Christian

[Daeglan]

Thats what I figured. But I didn't want to assume. I assume it is very important to tell the dispatcher you have the suspect at gun point? What is the likely procedure going to be when the police arrive?

[Chris]

Daeglan,

You can expect the responding officers to arrive with guns drawn... or at the very least their hands on them in the holster. They will IMMEDIATELY direct you to place your weapon on the ground and show your empty hands. OBEY their directions! They don't yet know who is who and they want to go home to their families at the end of their shift. At this point... based upon what they know... anyone with a gun is a potential threat.
YOU point out... "He's the bad guy"... but immediately do what the officers tell you. Expect BOTH you and the BG to be placed in handcuffs until the responding officers figure out what's what. Don't object and get riled up. It's SOP in most areas.
Answer the officers questions...but don't launch into a major dialog or be outraged. They will secure the scene. Then they'll remove your cuffs, and take your detailed statement.
You will be "pumped up"... this is the time to immediately calm down.
Let them secure the scene first and don't be outraged when they cuff you. It all works out if you remain calm.

Chris Christian

[Daeglan]

And don't do what that friend of Obama did.

[flop-shank]

I would yell at them to "get the foxtrot off my property", then call the police. YMMV

[Steve]

Any mention of a gun, whether it is trying to hold someone at "gunpoint," "shots fired" or "man with a gun--there now,"  will ramp up the response.  That is good from the standpoint of expediting a response.  Just remember, you are at least one "man with a gun (or, if you prefer, person with a gun), there now," and that adds a considerable element of risk for you.  It also adds greatly to your level of responsibility for how things will turn out.  Above all, remember what Chris was saying, the cops are not mind readers and don't know you from the bad guy.  The rule is always: Do what the nice policeman tells you to do, even if he isn't a nice policeman.  You have to survive first, and the police are not going to be taking any chances.  Period. 

Anyone starting to see why it is usually better to let the bad guy run away?

Steve 

[BikerRN]

Mr. Steve is giving very good advice.

If anyone reading this has not taken LFI 1 yet, if you get the chance, do so. It is money well spent, IMHO. Another good thing is to buy and read "In The Gravest Extreme, by Massad Ayoob.

Hi Mas. I thought I'd give your class and book a plug as a happy former student that hopes to one day take LFI 2 with you as well.

Biker

[Daeglan]

I agree that them running away is probably for the best. I just don't want to assume the bad guy is gonna do that.  Cause Murphy's law says if it can go wrong it will. So I thought I should ask what is the propper course of action.  I certainly don't want to get shot by cops . I do plan on taking LFI at some point. Need to convince Mas to come to sunny LA somehow...and to save up enough money to pay the man for his hard earned info and training. I need to get to gunsite and thunder ranch too. So many classes so little money.

[xdcolorado]

Great reply Steve, thanks!!!!

[Daeglan]

And if you go to the Handgun Podcast Forum the topic "Even cops screw up" Shows how bad things can go even if you do everything right and even if you did or did not have a gun. The cop didn't even see the homeowners gun so even if he didn't have a gun he likely would have been shot anyway.

Makes me want to have handcuffs and a hitching post to leave the criminal locked up to for the cops to pick up the trash well away from me.

[glock23cc]

This is why I were my "bullet-proof" vest all the time..   Did that guy really survive with 6 HP rounds in him?

[Daeglan]

Yup... Semi lucky guy...he gets to be in pain for the rest of his life because the Field Training Officer is trigger happy.

[54R_shooter]

About 4 years ago, i came home from work ,unlocked the gate walked in, and i noticed a hat, laying on the walkway. Then i saw a shoe, and parts of blue jeans.
 I didnt know what was going on, then i noticed my bedroom window was knocked out.
Good Rottweiler.
 It would be hard to say what i would do. I can say i wouldnt call 9-11.
I definatley could not take someones  life over my personal possessions.
But if i was threatned with mine, Im sorry , I love me too.

[FLA2760]

Although this is not quite  the scenario  the OP presented it was close. I posted this over at TheFiringLine a few years back. I am a retired NYPD officer and in that capacity have responded to other people in need but it is VERY different when it is  happening to you!  I fully agree with what Steve posted earlier.  Here is the story.

When we moved to FL in 1997 we first rented a house to see if we wanted to buy in FL. We were in the house like a month; Palm Coast in Flagler county pretty rural then. Anyway I am up watching the tube in the LR at about 1am. I hear a car going up and down the street slowly. I had recently purchased a Rossi .357 so my new toy was with me in the LR as I watched tv. Well the car pulls into my driveway blacked out and two big dudes get out and are talking and smoking in my driveway. I now have the Flagler county sheriff dispatcher on the line and I am saying that these guys were acting suspicious by cruising up and down the block slowly and they are now in my driveway and do not belong here! Suddenly; they are banging on my door and saying open up we want our money! I realize they must be looking for the previous tenants and I tell them that you have the wrong guy and that the cops are on the way. They shout f--K the cops your ass is ours. I yell I am armed and will shoot! They stop kicking my door and start to mumble to each other. Get this, the 911 operator that was still on the line is screaming at me to PUT DOWN MY GUN! I am like NO WAY but when your deputy's arrive I will meet them with empty hands. The guys took off. When the deputy (1) arrived it had been like 12 minutes. He later told me he had been running at about 85 mph. When his backup arrived ( another 10 minutes )they began to search the neighborhood. They stopped these guys a few blocks away peering into a house under construction. Both of them were arrested on prowling charges and one of them had a warrant for a drug case. The cops found several dagger type knives and one revolver
(loaded) with scratched off serial numbers in their truck! My wife had already taken cover in our MB with my daughter who was 4 at the time. She was under the bed at my wife's knees. My wife had the mossberg 12ga trained on the locked BR door. She would have unloaded on anyone who tried to come in! We were only a mile from interstate 95 and I guess the community was seen as easy pickings due to the few LEOs on duty on the graveyard shift. We now live clear across the state in a community that has much better response times.

[Daeglan]

Question for Steve, Chris Et al. is it a good idea to have handcuffs? I 'spose then you can cuff the would be robber/home invader, and secure them till police arrive. seems to me this would allow you to not have a firearm in your hand.

[MasAyoob]

For the private home:
Handcuffs for sex.
Weapons for defense.
Takes too long to explain. Just trust me on this.
best,
Mas

[Chris]

+1 on Mas' comment. Attempting to handcuff a violent suspect by your self, without a back up/cover officer, can result in your becoming very dead... very quickly.
Chris Christian