revolver ?'s

[blazindave]

Chris,

Doubling your computer speed is nothing to sneeze at, good on ya!  Feed that hamster some quality chow and I am sure it'll be a happy union, err, I mean arrangement. 

But you mentioned a backup.  That's not a Chihuahua in an ankle holster by chance is it?

Oh, and sorry to break the news boys, but it is the 2-3/4" Ruger Speed Six that rules, and galactically.

   

[MasAyoob]

Matt, there's a little weasel trick that worked well for me on the 625, and will for you if your hand size works with it. My 625s have the round butt. The Pachmayr Compac round butt sucks up the recoil amazingly well.

It seems counterintuitive since they're small, but the Compac is shaped with a very broad recoil shoulder that spreads rearward impact all across the web of the hand, softening it in a way that has to be felt to be appreciated. Great for concealed carry, too, of course.

By all means shoot the Indiana State. Gail & I shot it last summer: great range crew, draws a great bunch of shooters, and the stages are extremely innovative and challenging.

best,
Mas

[mattman23]

Mas I think I tried them.I bought a set off a 325 nightguard(think they are the same).The backstrap worked well but I had a hard time getting a good purchase on it.                                                                      I made mm but barely.Nowhere to go but up! Heading out now to run a 100 through the 625 and hopefully 250 617.I think running the 617 has helped tremendously with my da trigger control.Not to mention its cheap and fun as hell! thanks,Matt

[mattman23]

Well they had math issues,I didnt make mm,oh well theres always april!practice,practice,practice.

[mattman23]

Practice is going well,I also picked up a 686ssr for my year of the revolver.I getting ready to start my reloads/testing.Which brings up my question,I noticed in alot of the pa podcast and alot of articles Ive read alot of your match loads are +p and light mag loads.Is that what the gun liked or is there another reason?  Thanks for the help,Matt

[Chris]

Mattman,
I can't speak for everybody regarding .38 loads for IDPA compeition. But, I reload. You have to make a 125 Power Factor for SSR/IDPA, and from a four-inch barrel. That is a 158 grain bullet at a minimum of 792 fps, or a 180 grain bullet at 695 fps. You can also run a 140 grain at 900 fps. There are very few factory loads that will achieve that in the 158 bullet range (Speer Lawman TMJ .38+P is the only one I would count on). And none that I know of in the 180 grain range, or the 140 range. The drawback to the Lawman  (and the reason I don't use it in matches) is that it has a flat metplat that can slow a reload.
The reason I reload is to get a good, round nose/quick reloading load that the factories don't provide.
You can get by with a lot of factory ammo in a club match where they aren't going to chrono you. Any 158 LRN will work. Spend the time & money to go to a Sanctioned match where you will get chronoed, and you have to make those velocity figures or get DQed.
That's the reason I reload.
Chris Christian

[HighPockets]

Chris, Standing next to you last week in the match you would think I would have looked at the bullets you load.  No smoke so I guess jacketed?
What brand do you prefer and why.  Do you shoot lead outdoors?
Also I spied you use leather holders for your speed loaders.  Have you checked out the Kydex ones I make (John has one).
Gotta get ready for the bug match, need to barrow three more J-frames so I can be strapped like Strayer, haha
Regards, Dale

[Chris]

Dale,
I was shooting Speer 158 grain swaged LRN bullets ahead of 3.9 grains of Clays powder (840 fps average, I only need 792 to make 125 PF). The Clays powder because it is really clean burning (doesn't gum cylinders, and I only scrubbed chambers once at that match... just before the last "no light stage" because I wanted to make sure that in the total dark the six rounds would eject... cause if one didn't I wouldn't know until I tried to shove six new rounds into only five empty holes). I shoot the Speer bullets because a swaged bullet is a soft lead rod passed through a precise forming die (more consistent diameter than cast bullets poured from a mold and then sized/lubed)... and then Speer (as well as Hornady, who aslo make swaged LRN .38 bullets) use a hard, dry lube that does not smoke. Keep those swaged bullets under 900 fps and you have no issues with leading. If you get on some forums you'll see people complaining all the time about the smoke Clays produces with their lead bullets. That's because those bullets are cast, and lubed with a soft lube that WILL burn and smoke.
Splitting post.
Chris Christian

[Chris]

Dale,
Part two... I shoot the same bullets all the time, indoors or out. From my Ruger GP-100 they are about 3-inch at 25 yards... more than adequate for IDPA/IPSC. If you are shooting a S&W, don't buy in bulk until you see if your gun will shoot lead. I've seen a lot of S&W revolvers made since 2000 (one of mine included) that would not shoot lead... tumbling and 4+ inch 25 yard groups (although they were tack drivers with jacketed). If your's is like that, plated bullets are a better choice. As for the speedloader holders... I took a two pouch .44 Mag set that featured a snap over holder and cut a half moon in the top of the snap strap. I have to unsnap the holder to install the Comp IIIs, but with the half moon cut I can just grab and pull to extract. They hold the loaders securely under ANY activity/movement... even rolling around prone. No 3 second "bonus score" for dropping a loaded ammo carrier during a COF... yet they come to hand as clean as any kydex unit (and I have a Safariland three pouch that I wear for IPSC) but retain the loaders more positively. I've dropped speedloaders in IPSC from the Kydex, but NEVER from the "home made" leather. Hope that helps... don't hesitate to ask anything else...I'm tickled to death to help!
Chris Christian

[mattman23]

Chris,thanks for all the info.That was going to 1 of my questions as well.I need gear for the l frame now.Revolver is a foreign concept down here for the most part so its great to have a source for fast freindly advice. Thanks again,sure ill be back for more.Take care,Matt

[Chris]

Mattman,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm happy to share anything I know about revolver shooting.... and I really do like getting wheelgunners started right in the sport. The look on their faces when they beat a bunch of bottom feeders is... to me... priceless. And, if I had anything to do with that, it makes my day.
Chris Christian

[HighPockets]

Thanks for the reply Chris.  I will look up the swaged bullets.  Right now I shoot 158s cast locally.  Started with Unique now have invested in Tight Group (8lb).  But I'm using that to load everything,.38, 9mm, .40, .45.  Only have been reloading for 1-1/2 years so I know I'm a Nube at it.  Not to discount your advice at all, but the guys at the range who reload all have their favorite loads and that's where I get most of my info.  So it keeps me confused most of the time (ha ha).  I'll put it on the list to pick up a 100 rounds and a pound of Clays.
Do you intend to shoot the NC wheelgun match?  I'm looking forward to it.
When I get my cylinder back from being chamfered and honed I will go 100% revolver to get ready.  Got to make some dummy rounds to pratice reloads with.  I'm a south paw, so I do it differently.
I just cant get them lined up and IN the holes very fast.
Thanks for the help.
Dale G.

[HighPockets]

Still need some help. Chris, I got a pound of Clays.  But have not found the Speer bullets you described.  Can you give me the part number or where you abscond them from?
Dale Gikiere

[Chris]

Dale,
The Speer 158 grain LRN swaged bullets I use with Clays are part #4648 (500 round box... I think they discontinued the 100 round plastic boxes) Hornady also makes a 158 LRN with hard lube that works just as well... don't know the part # on that, but a check of their website will show it. One word on Clays, and I don't know if I covered it previously. THE 3.9 GRAIN POWDER CHARGE I USE IS AN OVER PRESSURE LOAD IN A .38 SPECIAL CHAMBERED GUN!!! DO NOT USE IT IN A .38 spl GUN!! In a .357 Magnum chambered gun it's just fine... less than half the pressure of a max .357 load... soft recoil... no probs in .357. Just don't use it in a .38 Spl.
Chris Christian

[HighPockets]

Wooha....got me with that one.  Would have turned my Mod 67 into a conversation piece.  I remember you talking in a podcast that it was hard to get .38s up to power factor.  I only have .38s, any suggestions.  Well I do have a .357 Blackhawk but that would make my reloads even slower, ha ha. Thanks
Dale

[Chris]

Dale,
My advice, if you want to spend a lot of time in SSR, is to get a .357 chambered gun. If you want to stick with a .38 chambered gun...stay with 158 grain or 180 grain cast lead bullets... and go to Hodgdon's web site and look at .38 loads using H4227 or HS-6. My literature indicates they might get you there at pressures under 18,000 CUP. You may have to use a small pistol magnum primer to get a full & clean burn. It will take some experimentation. Another powder to look at is Unique. I prefer Clays or HP-38 because they are cleaner and softer recoiling, but you need a .357 gun IMHO to use them for extended shooting. The 125 PF for SSR is a sore point with knowledgeable revolver shooters because most (if not all) of the popular and effective self-defense .38+P loads won't make 125, so IDPA shooters actually can't use effective SD loads in .38 and have to bump them up in power.... yet can download 9mm and .45 ACP loads to a point where no kjnowledgeable shooter would use them for SD. Doesn't make sense to me. ICORE has a better answer with a 120 PF and it only has to make it from one chamber in the cylinder. It's a more "Real World" approach.
Chris Christian

[S391]

I just walked in the door with a shiny new Smith & Wesson 625JM...... I have to stop hanging around you guys  

Chris,

You were a huge help when I was getting my 9mm load going.... any suggestions for a good load for ESR?

[mattman23]

Congrats S391! I just finished an action job on mine,I thought i loved it before,but wow.After I was finished with my lesson we went to a local shop and a 627 pro followed me home.I had no idea this illness would take over so quickly!

[S391]

Congrats S391! I just finished an action job on mine,I thought i loved it before,but wow.After I was finished with my lesson we went to a local shop and a 627 pro followed me home.I had no idea this illness would take over so quickly!

Great looking pair! I've been wanting a 625 for a long time.... I can't wait for our next match.

Quick question, where do you put your thumbs when you shoot a revolver? When I try to use my normal two-hand hold I have no idea where to put my weak-hand thumb.....

[flop-shank]

Steve, the firing hand thumb should be curled downward the way one's thumb would be oriented if one were to grab hold of a pipe with a tight grip. The support hand thumb should wrap over the top of the firing hand thumb's distal joint (or somewhere there about) and press down on it, thus lending it's strength to the firing hand's thumb.

Obviously, (you being a pistol shooter, you know this) wrapping the support thumb around the back of the gun and over the web of the hand is a very bad habit. Some revolver target shooters (and IIRC Jerry Miculek) advocate this, but I disagree since I try to avoid shooting techniques that unnecessarily develop bad habits when applied to other types of weapons.