XD's and why they suck

[Eric R Shelton]

Eric, I'll have you know the Springfield XD is the greatest gun every developed.

I should know I carry three of them every day while working the mall.  One is in 9mm is I need a high velocity round, one is in .45 if I need a hard hitting round, and one is in .40 in case I need something in between.  Unlike the Glock the XDs have two features which are critical for an elite mall security guard such as myself.

First the loaded chamber indicator.  Let me ask you this smart guy how can you tell by a quick glance if your fancy smancy Glock has a round in the chamber?  You can't!  You have to manually check the chamber which take seconds that would kill you in a gun fight with Al Qaeda if they were attacking your mall.  Second the XD has a cocked indicator letting you know if your gun is cocked or not.  I know some idiot will say if you racked the slide to load a round into the chamber is cocked but what if you fired the gun on a bullet with a bad primer at the range and forgot about it later?  You'd have a loaded chamber that wasn't cocked that's what!

I'll not even get into the fact that the Melonite finish is much better than the Tennifer.  Melonite is actually produced by hammer forging, with THOR'S HAMMER ITSELF!  Does the Glock finish require the hammer of an ancient and angry god to make?  Didn't think so.

 

Ok, I almost peed myself laughing.  Nice job!  LOL!

[wingsprint410]

Metal? Hi-Point? Naa... the air bubbles in the pot castings will keep you afloat. It's a safety feature that is often overlooked.
Chris Christian

Thanks... I just sit soda out of my nose... Funny.

[walkingbush]

Micheal. thats seriously tongue in cheeck, google gecko 45 or mall ninjas and you will understand the context!

Thanks! Good to know, but there may be a reader who doesn't know that and the coach in me just couldn't help it.

So I finally finished listening to the podcast and I did enjoy it. While I'm not a fan of the XD for some of the reasons mentioned, I have nothing against it either. I'm not sure what I would class myself as but I have about 5,000+ rounds through my Walther P99 and 2,000+ rounds through my S&W M&P40. Both are top notch pistols, though I've transitioned to the M&P for my daily carry. The comment about real shooters not liking the XD gave me pause however, as Clint Smith's 2nd choice handgun (to the 1911) is the XD, and if anyone is a high round count, been there done that shooter, Clint should qualify.

I can testify that the Glock does have a different grip angle than the M&P and it does affect my shooting. Can I shoot a glock? Absolutely. Do I have anything against them as an effective combat arm. Nope. Can I shoot faster with the M&P, yes. For me the grip angle of the Glock forces the muzzle down and I have to cant my wrist up to align the sights (I shoot isocolese). The M&P has the same angle as a 1911 and the XD. Glocks are steeper. It is not related to the arched mainspring area, the actual angle is different. But the thing is, that's ok. It works well for a lot of people, my best friend being one of them. Just my thoughts...

So Eric, did I hear correctly? You're taking Krav classes? I did it for about 2 years (through blue belt level) and would still be doing it except for the 50 mile drive to the school since I moved. What do you think so far?

Michael Coffman

[Eric R Shelton]

Yeah, I didn't even realize I mentioned it (Krav) in the show, but I'm going to talk about it a bit more in episode 72.

As for the XD, I don't have anything against it, either.  As for Clint Smith, I can't say.  I mean, the ProArms crew has a fair amount of XDs between them, and I think it's safe to say they are shooters!  (The Clint Smith video I have, he uses a 1911 and a Glock.)  Like I said, that was more of an experiment.  We'll see.

I do love how people say they can't aim a Glock, shoot too low/high, etc.  I think, really?  You know, if you spend more time with it, you might just adapt...  Call me crazy...  When I got my first 1911, I didn't bitch about the trigger reset not working how I liked- rather, I learned how to effectively work the 1911 mechanism.  I've taken some heat for saying something similar to this before, but I disagree with the notion that the gun should work around us.  I understand that size of grip, length of pull, etc. are all valid issues- please don't misunderstand.  But I think a firearm should be designed to best accomplish it's given mission, and then it is up to the user to learn how to maximize it's potential.

To illustrate- I would hate an XD right now because I've been so into Glock lately.  But leaving all technical details aside and working strictly from personal preference?  Give me 2 months with the XD and I'll be good with it- hitting where I should be, etc.  Same thing with somebody who "just can't use a Glock".  I believe it's largely our failure (and I'm as guilty as anybody, here) to diligently and properly learn to maximize the tool we have.

Of course, I don't even know how lucid this train of thought is right now- so if this post makes anybody mad (beside Chris Christian- I'm out to usurp his GOF crown) I'm blaming it on sleep deprivation and caffeine overdoses.

[Christopher Burg]

Since I already did a snarky post on this subject I'll not go for something serious.

I've been running a test between a Glock 30 I recently purchased and the Springfield XD Compact .45 I've had for a year.  There is a threat about my findings so far so you can read it for the nitty gritty details.

But as Eric said if you give it some time you'll pick up on it.  I honestly hated the grip angle on the Glock but it took me one trip to the range and I adapted to the lower bore axis.  Every time you get a new gun you have to learn how to shoot it as they generally differ.  But in all honesty the grip on the XD is more comfortable for me.

While I'm on the subject and obviously an expert ( in what I'm not sure) I'll mention a few things.  Concerns over the loaded chamber indicator and cocked indicator have always been amusing to me.  Yes those are more parts to break that really serve no purpose.  You should always check to chamber manually to see if it's loaded and the gun is always cocked if you've loaded a round into the chamber.  But here's the fact if either one breaks is doesn't prevent the gun from firing optimally.  The gun will work just find with either part missing (I know, I've tried it.  By the way I don't recommend it.).

Then there is the grip safety.  I personally like this feature.  Once again it's a part that I can't perceive any way it could break and hamper the gun from operating.  All the grip safety does when you press it in is move the top of the safety back so a piece can clear when you fire it.  If you managed to break the lower part of the safety where the spring pushed back but not the top of the safety (in other words you purposely broke it to prove a point) the safety isn't going to cause any problems.  The spring moves the safety outwards, if the spring goes missing the safety will remain inwards and the gun will operate just fine (this is one method of disabling that safety).

Then you have the finish argument.  People saying Tenifer is better than Melonite or visa versa.  The fact of the matter is they are the same thing just called different things (they have three names for that process).

In all honesty the guns are so similar you'd swear the Crotes just ripped off the Austrian pistol and added a few safety features and made it handle similar to 1911 and CZ style pistol.  Wait that's exactly what they did.

Anyways in my opinion both are great guns and you can't go wrong getting either.  In fact you should get both!

[Jkwas]

Thank god for this podcast!  I was seriously thinking of an XD as of late, and now that I'm aware of all the shortcomings I will definately be looking harder at the Glock and M&P.
I know the above is a wiseguy comment, but to be honest I was concerned of the high bore-axis of the XD and was thinking the glock and M&P might be better shooters, for me anyway. 

[marsbike]

JK, I was going through the same thought process last year, when I decided on my XD.  I went to a range, rented all three, and found out that I couldn't even hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with the M&P, and I REALLY wanted to like that gun.  For some reason the Glock felt a little large in my petite hands, and the XD felt just right, not really caring about bore axis.  Go try all three out before you rule one out based off of a guy who reads too much and talks too much using it as a sacrificial lamb to prove a point.  That said, all three are nice guns, and you gotta find the one (or three) that work well for you.

[Christopher Burg]

Just for the sake of fun I decided to go through the points you made about the XD Eric.  Yes I know you were presenting this as an example of fanboyism but alas it's in my nature to debate.  And I want to point out that this is entirely for fun not anything else, I really don't care which gun somebody finds best for them.  This post is mostly me going through each of the points Eric made during his podcast and stating what I think.

Yeah that is one expensive head stamp.  I'll give Springfield Armory Inc. a little credit for making the HS2000 sell like hotcakes for a much higher price.  Seriously their advertising arm is bloody good, I want to be able to do that.

I will admit I did not know about the slide locking issue, nor have I experienced it.  That's interesting and troubling at the same time.  Time will certainly be spent looking into this.

I have an update on the slide lock issue.  I was looking into it over my lunch break and was able to find the cause.  Every post I've found on XDTalk dealing with this subject has one thing in common.  The slide gets stuck after the user disassembled it and reassembled it for cleaning, not during field use.  The cause is placing the recoil spring in the gun backwards during reassembly.  This could be considered a design flaw although I will personally put it down as user error.

The rust issues have been resolved.  It was an issue with how the finish.  The early XDs were finished with a process called Bruniral which apparently wasn't overly effective given the rust.  New XDs are all finished with Melonite which is the same process Glock uses just by a different name.

I agree the cocked indicator is a pretty dumb feature.  If you've racked the slide back about a quarter of an inch or more the gun will be cocked.  But I also don't worry about it as it's one of those parts that can break and not cause any detriment to the operation of the firearm.

The mention of being unable to get parts or service for an XD is completely accurate.  If you have problems with your XD you'll be sending it to Springfield Armory Inc.

The extractor can be removed and quite easily.  You just need a pick of some sort (think what a dentist uses) and get under it and wiggle it out.  I've had my extractor out several times and never had an issue removing it.  If it's stuck I'd suggest some penetrating oil.

The law enforcement argument is rather moot for a couple of reasons.  The big one is the fact Smith and Wesson as well as Glock give big discounts to law enforcement agencies while Springfield Armory does not.  This is more of a complaint against the company and has nothing to do with the gun in my opinion.  A second reason the XD probably hasn't penetrated far into our law enforcement groups is the fact that the Glock works.  What benefit could a police agency have for looking into another gun if the one they have works.  When the switched from revolvers to autoloaders there was a distinct benefit.  Going from one autoloader to another isn't going to have that same benefit so why waste the time and money testing a new one?  I will say the XD is used heavily by Croatian law enforcement, in fact that's what it was developed for.

I do not know much about the reputation the XD has in shooting schools.  But wasn't Jaeger the guy who had a camera gun sitting down range taking pictures during a life fire exercise?  Just saying.

Then we have the accuracy thing come up.  In all honesty I've heard just as many reports saying the XD is more accurate than a Glock as I've heard the reverse.  I know my XD outshoots me but then again that's not hard to do when it comes to handguns.  I don't think the XD(m) so much fixes the accuracy as it just improves upon it.  It's kind of like the difference between a standard G.I. 1911 and a match grade 1911.

The Bubba gun nomenclature is funny.

It is fact that the XD is more complicated than a Glock.  Of course most of the additional complexities are unrelated to any performance issues from what I can tell.  My previous post mentioned a few additional items that add to the complexity but don't hinder the gun if they are broken or missing.  That's all I care about really.  If the added feature breaks will the gun still work?  Yes?  OK than I'm not going to spend time worrying about it.

I've also not had any issues with the grip safety as far as one handed manipulation.  The only thing the grip safety affects is shooting the gun.  But being a passive safety it is disengaged when you are holding the gun to shoot, even one handed.  This is the same as a 1911.  I can work the magazine and rack the slide with no issue caused by the grip safety that's for sure.  Racking the slide is a bit more difficult on my XD than my Glock simply because the recoil spring in the XD is much heavier.

The fact the gun is single action is probably another reason police agencies don't adopt it.  But frankly the trigger pull on the Glock and the XD are both obscenely light compared to a true double action that I question the validity of a department choosing a Glock because it'd "double-action." 

The magazines as far as I can tell are top notch.  In fact I like the XD magazines quite a bit more than the Glock magazines.  Croatia has been using these same magazines in their last three (at least) generation of military and law enforcement pistols.  If there were major bugs in the magazine design I'd assume they would have encountered and corrected them by now.

As for David Bowie (not the sovereign of the Guild of Calamitous Intent) saying he spends more time fixing XDs than customizing them, I'd like to hear what he has to fix so frequently.  I don't mean that in a snide manner I'm genuinely curious.

The mention that the XD is a gun for gun owners and not shooters well I'll answer Eric's question.  My round count through my XD is approximately 2,600 in the span of a year.  Note that this is all practice rounds and doesn't include any competition shooting (I haven't gotten into pistol competition yet).  Throughout the life of the gun I experienced two failures, both feeding issues.  These were caused by my reloads.  I was cooking up a new recipe and the amount of powder I had in the case was extremely low.  In the fairness of comparison I made a batch of these up and shot them through the Glock 30 when I got it which also experienced the same failures.  Am I a shooter?  I don't know what qualifies as a shooter exactly but I would say I lean towards gun owner.

Yes the gun is built in Croatia but hey they seem to know what they're doing.  I also like CZ guns which are made in the Czech Republic and AK-47s which are made in a plethora of different stabiluty-impaired countries.  But that's just me.

Anyways they are all great points to present.  I didn't find them to be Glock fanboyism but constructive criticism, which is always good.  Thanks for the episode Eric, I absolutely loved it.

And in all honestly just use what you want and like.

Edit:  Looked into the slide locking issue and posted my findings.

[Eric R Shelton]

Go try all three out before you rule one out based off of a guy who reads too much and talks too much using it as a sacrificial lamb to prove a point.

While I'm not quite sure about the "reads too much and talks too much", marsbike is absolutely correct here.  In my opinion the XD is a good gun, and this was done as an exercise to show that anybody who has an axe to grind will find a way to pick apart even a perfectly serviceable pistol.  The XD was simply the "sacrificial lamb" for this.  Didn't I say as much?  Seriously, didn't I explicitly say that before and after the segment on XDs?  I sure thought I did, because Christ Burg and some others caught on to what I was doing...

[lee n. field]

It was pretty obvious. 

[Chris]

Hey Eric,
When ya gonna do another Hi-Point show? I loved that one!
Chris Christian

[Christopher Burg]

Well Eric to answer your question it was so obviously I got it, and I'm not all that smart.

[ChazMurray]

My 3 XD's suck so badly that I only carry ONE of them 24/7!

[lee n. field]

Let me ask you this smart guy how can you tell by a quick glance if your fancy smancy Glock has a round in the chamber?  You can't!

<pssst, ninja-man>  Swap out your Gloch extractor for a new style one with the nub that sticks out.

Second the XD has a cocked indicator letting you know if your gun is cocked or not.

Your trigger will serve.  If it's forward, it's cocked.  If it's back, it's not.

    All in fun.

Look how expensive Glocks are.

Ja, really.  I look at what goes into it, and think, "should they really cost five hundred mumble bucks?"  Molded plastic and some sheet metal bits, mostly, in the receiver?

The extractor can be removed and quite easily.

Get the backplate off, and the Glock's slide can be completely disassembled in a few seconds.  The design is slick, IMHO.

I do not know much about the reputation the XD has in shooting schools
As for David Bowie (not the sovereign of the Guild of Calamitous Intent) saying he spends more time fixing XDs than customizing them, I'd like to hear what he has to fix so frequently.

I see reports like that, and I'd want to see some numbers, and details on what exactly failed.  The one class I went to, back when, it was the high dollar 1911s that had the most problems, of anything.

Seriously, didn't I explicitly say that before and after the segment on XDs?

You did, and I got it.  All guns, like all OSs, suck.  Just some worse than others.

[walkingbush]

...I do love how people say they can't aim a Glock, shoot too low/high, etc.  I think, really?  You know, if you spend more time with it, you might just adapt... 

Eric,

I whole heartedly agree. With enough practice, I can shoot any gun. When I swapped from my P99 to the M&P, my performance tanked for a few hundred rounds until I adjusted to the firearm. However, I do believe that if you start out with a firearm that points naturally for you, the process proceeds much faster. Just as skeet shooters tweak their shotguns to point correctly and snipers shim their stocks for LOP and cheek weld, so a well fit handgun aids in performance of the firearm. That being said, give a sniper any rifle and I'll bet he can out shoot me, it just might be easier for him with his 'fit' gun. Besides, even Shaw 'fit' his Glock to his wife's hand. All hail the dremel tool!

Michael Coffman

[Eric R Shelton]

My 3 XD's suck so badly that I only carry ONE of them 24/7!

LOL!  I love it!   

[Karl]

Hey Eric,
When ya gonna do another Hi-Point show? I loved that one!
Chris Christian

I think he's planning on one AFTER the book is released.......

How To Stir Up A Pot Of S**t In A One Hour Podcast
By Eric R Shelton

 

[Rvick82]

Eric,

Loved this episode! Point was very well taken. Now I want to get an XD... "Just throwing that out there" 


Ryan

[Kingofthehill]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GBdYBc0BLgQ&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/GBdYBc0BLgQ&rel=0</a>

[XDme]

Well my XD has about 1100 rounds with only 1 misfeed, and that was with an unknown surplus ammo a friend had.
It fits my hand like it was made for me, and I must say if the Glocks felt as good in my hand I would have one.

Oh yea I have a Ruger 10-22 that sucks as well.

...Richard