.40 S&W

[hunterman652]

Eric,

I agree with you 100% on the 40! I don't see any reason for that caliber, The 9mm loads being made right now are great and if you want more why stop half way? Go straight to .45 and get something that is usually easier to shoot than a 40.

[marsbike]

I also agree.  When I bought my XD, I tried out one in .40 and .45 as well.  I loved the 45, just didn't want to spend that much more in ammo, and after looking at the loads available for the 9, I decided to go with that.  Now, when I can (living in IL), I carry with the Federal HST 124 gr.  It is so much easier and nicer to shoot than the .40.  If I'm gonna shoot a gun that'll beat me up, I'll stick to my M44 and my friend's 91/30.

[Eric R Shelton]

Whew!  I was convinced this thread was going to begin life telling me what a moron I was!  LOL.  (Not like it would be the first time, though, right?)

[wyoshooter]

I agree as well.  The .40S&W no longer carries any type of appeal for me.  My first handgun was a .40 S&W because it was the only gun I had at the time and I bought it during the old AWB.  The .40 made a lot of sense during that time because if you were going to buy a Glock or in my case a Sig Pro, why buy a 9mm that held 10 rounds when you could but a .40 that held 10 rounds?  Much like the AWB aided the rise of the sub-compact semi-auto I think it also was a big help in the .40 gaiing popularity. 

That being said I don't own a single .40 now, just 9's and .45's.

[twelve]

Perfect! You guys keep on hating the 40. While my Kimber waits for stores to have 45 in stock again, I'll keep putting more rounds through my G23 since 40 S&W in on shelves and far less expensive! :-)

[stickhauler]

Perfect! You guys keep on hating the 40. While my Kimber waits for stores to have 45 in stock again, I'll keep putting more rounds through my G23 since 40 S&W in on shelves and far less expensive! :-)

Exactly, I can feed my Glock 22 cheaper than I can my 1911 right now. I kind of like the round, it's a snappier round than a 9mm (well, even snappier than a .45ACP for that matter) but a good solid self defense round none the less. Now, the .357Sig is the round I fail to see the need for. But that's just me.

[bshupe]

I love the .40 round. My M&P holds 15 of those bad boys. If you look at the ballistic charts I think you will see that the .40 is actually a very useful round.

[Eric R Shelton]

Here in Tucson, a .40 and a .45 are priced so close, I fail to see any cost savings.  I also fail to see any performance benefit.


Like I said, I'm not calling it ineffective.  Just not any better than anything else, either.  It's marksmanship and shot placement, no matter what caliber you choose.  Might as well take it easier on the shooter, imho.  In the words of ToddG at Pistol-Training.com, "I’ll take more controllability, more speed, and more ammo over a slightly bigger bullet hole every time."

And I see one advantage of the .357 Sig beyond the theoretical longer (flat shooting) range: since nobody bothers owning a gun chambered in .357 Sig that was one of the few calibers still on the shelf when the buying frenzy happened.  LOL.   

[BikerRN]

Most .40 S&W handguns allow you to shoot three different calibers, with little effort.

That is one advantage of the .40 S&W and the new 357 Sig. Personally, I love the 357 Sig's ballistics. It was what the F.B.I. had in mind when they helped to usher in the .40 S&W, but were too dumb to ask for, IMO.

I look at it like this, while I would much prefer a good 9mm, or a .45 ACP for that matter if I could only select between the 9, 40 or 45, the 9mm is ammunition dependant. As long as I can pick the ammo I have no issues with the 9. If I can't get my preferred ammo, give me a .40 as it's really hard to find a bad bullet in 40. The same cannot be said about the 9mm.

Biker

[twelve]

Hey Eric, Did Al Gore put that penetration test together? Just kidding.
When I looked into getting a .40 I looked at a few different things but the most important ones personally were round count and energy.
What initially brought me to look at the .40 S&W was that the .45 ACP, when I could find them here in northern Colorado, was 7-10 cents per round more expensive.
I also looked at the Speer Ammo Ballistics Tables for a good apples to apples performance comparison, Gold Dot Personal Protection round.
http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx
Speed seemed similar in the heavier 9mm, .40 & .45 rounds but the .40 & .45 are far superior in the "Energy (in foot pounds)" column. That to me is a big one.
That leaves round count per mag in similar size frames. I think all would agree that .40 beats .45 in that category.
-Mark

[glock23cc]

Eric,
I agree with you 100% on the 40! I don't see any reason for that caliber, The 9mm loads being made right now are great and if you want more why stop half way? Go straight to .45 and get something that is usually easier to shoot than a 40.

Some of us want a little more stopping power and dont want to have to carry 2 or 3 extra mags for the .45.  The .40 round is obviously larger and is more powerful than the 9mm.  I'm not saying the 9mm isnt effective, I know it's very effective with modern hollow points.  I'm saying that even of the .40 round is only slightly better why wouldnt you go with it. 
There has to be a reason thousands of police officers and police depts carry G22's over the 9mm.

[Eric R Shelton]

I must've linked to this article http://pistol-training.com/archives/2091 a little too subtly for Curt last time...   

Biker hit the nail on the head with the 9mm ammo dependence.  Which is when I would move straight to a .45.  Because in the guns I've fired, it's still easier on the shooter than a .40.  And a 1911, and extra magazine or two, are so slim that they actually conceal quite well.  Don't you guys carry a spare mag for your 9s and 40s anyway?

[Chemsoldier]

Seeing this makes me think that we should look at a breakdown of common calibers in the United States and their capabilities (lifted shamelessly from another forum).  Due to reactions I have seen to this elsewhere please keep in mind this is designed to be funny.

9mm Luger: European popgun round that’s only popular because the ammo is cheap for a centerfire cartridge. Cheap ammo is a good thing for 9mm aficionados, because anything bigger and more dangerous than a cranky raccoon will likely require multiple well-placed hits. Wildly popular all over the world, mostly in countries where people don’t carry guns, and cops don’t have to actually shoot people with theirs.

.45ACP: Chunky low-pressure cartridge that hogs magazine space and requires a low-capacity design (if the gun needs to fit human hands) or a grip with the circumference of a two-liter soda bottle (if the gun needs to hold more than seven rounds). Disturbingly prone to bullet setback, expensive to reload, fits only into big and clunky guns, and a recoil that has an inversely proportionate relationship with muzzle energy.

.40S&W: Neutered compromise version of a compromise cartridge. Even more setback-happy than the .45ACP, and setbacks are much more dangerous because of higher pressure and smaller case volume. Manages to sacrifice both the capacity of the 9mm and the bullet diameter of the .45. Twice the recoil of the 9mm for 10% more muzzle energy.

.357SIG: Highly overpriced boutique round that does the .40S&W one worse: it manages to share the capacity penalty of the .40 while retaining the small bullet diameter of the 9mm. Noisy, sharp recoil, and 100% cost penalty for ballistics that can be matched by a good 9mm +P+ load. Penetrates like the dickens, which means that the Air Marshals just had to adopt it…only to load their guns with frangible bullets to make sure they don’t penetrate like the dickens.

.38 Special: Legacy design with a case length that’s 75% longer than necessary for the mediocre ballistics of the round due to its blackpowder heritage. On the plus side, the case length makes it easy to handle when reloading the gun. This is a good thing because anyone using their .38 in self-defense against a 250-pound attacker hopped up on crack will need to empty the gun multiple times.

.32ACP: Inadequate for anything more thick-skinned than Northeastern squirrels or inbred Austrian archdukes. Semi-rimmed cartridge that is rimlock-happy in modern lightweight autoloaders. Doesn’t go fast enough to expand a hollowpoint bullet, and it wouldn’t matter even if it did, because the bullet would only expand from tiny to small-ish.

.44 Magnum: Overpowered round that generates manageable recoil and muzzle blast…if you’re a 300-pound linebacker with wrists like steel girders. Often loaded to “Lite” levels that turn it into a noisy .44 Special while retaining the ego-preserving Magnum headstamp. Considered the “most powerful handgun cartridge in the world” by people whose gun knowledge is either stuck in 1960, or who get their expertise in ballistics from Dirty Harry movies.

10mm Auto: Super-high pressure cartridge that beats up gun and shooter alike. Very brisk recoil in anything other than all-steel S&W boat anchors, with a shot recovery that’s measured in geological epochs for most handgun platforms. Often underloaded to wimpy levels (see “.40 S&W”), which then gives it 9mm ballistics while requiring .45ACP magazine real estate.

.380ACP/9mm Kurz: Designed by people who thought the 9mm Luger was a bit too brisk and snappy, which is pretty much all that needs to be said here. Great round if you expect to only ever be attacked by people less than seven inches thick from front to back.

.357 Magnum: Lots of recoil, muzzle blast, and noise to drive a 9mm bullet to reckless speeds in an attempt to make up for its low mass and diameter. Explosive fragmentation and insufficient penetration with light bullets; excessive penetration and insufficient expansion with heavy ones. Still makes only 9mm holes in the target.

5.7×28mm: Ingenious way to make a centerfire .22 Magnum and then charge quadruple price for the same ballistics. Awesome chambering for a police weapon…if you’re the park ranger in charge of the chipmunk exhibit at the zoo, and you want to make sure you can take one down if it turns rabid on you.

.25ACP: Direct violation of the maxim “Never do an enemy a minor injury”. Designed by folks who wanted to retain the bullet diameter of the .22 rimfire round, but take a bit of the excessive lethality out of it. Favored by people who don’t feel comfortable carrying anything more dangerous than the neighbor kid’s rusty Red Ryder pellet gun.

[Dale]

And no one is talking about the 10m?

[daemonpi]

Chemsoldier that is funny LOL

[AJ187]

And no one is talking about the 10m?

Now a 10 meter bullet; that has stopping power.

But really all handguns calibers have had failure to stops at one time or another.  There are too many factors to calculate.  Just shoot the gun that you shoot best.  And for me, that is the 40 cal.  I just like the way it recoils.  It's not snappy like a 9 and doesn't have a big flip like my 45.  Follow up shots feel right on, but that's all subjective to the user.   

[stickhauler]

And no one is talking about the 10m?

How much powder charge do you need to move that 10 meter bullet out of the tube? And how many people does it take to carry that gun anyway. That has to be a battleship gun!

[glock23cc]

I must've linked to this article http://pistol-training.com/archives/2091 a little too subtly for Curt last time...   
Biker hit the nail on the head with the 9mm ammo dependence.  Which is when I would move straight to a .45.  Because in the guns I've fired, it's still easier on the shooter than a .40.  And a 1911, and extra magazine or two, are so slim that they actually conceal quite well.  Don't you guys carry a spare mag for your 9s and 40s anyway?

Ive trained enough and spent a ton of $ at the range to be able to have good control and accuracy with my G23.  The .40 definetly does have more recoil and bang than the 9mm which takes getting use to if you only use 9mm.  I would prefer the .45acp(1911) which I do like, but most times I prefer to carry something with greater capacity.  With me its not about if I can hit the target ive tried all three of the above calibers and they are all very effective.  And I do carry one extra 15 round mag of GDHP's.  I'm not knockin any of these sytems or calibers.  Its about personal preference.  I dont need to carry a ton of extra ammo because I'm pretty accurate.  Not near as good as most of you I know, but I can hit what i'm aiming at, at least at the ranges.  Never been in a gunfight, dont plan on being in one but I still carry just in case.  just my .04cents

[glock23cc]

I agree I like it.

[Fire Tracer]

Personally i love the .40. Its a great round and it doesnt take up as much space as the .45 does. Theres FAR more calibers that are less useful then the .40.