Confidence in reloads

[Panhead Bill]

Ok, so I got everything set up, little over a hundred cartridges sized & primed, and loaded a couple dummy rounds to make sure dies are all adjusted properly. Tomorrow I'll load a couple rounds with a very conservative amount of powder (aftercross-checking several sources) to test Saturday. I can't help but wonder if I'll have both hands Saturday night.

What do I need to be watching for when I test fire?  Any specific tests to shoot to verify accuracy (looking for good enough for USPSA)?

Thanks,

Bill

[Panhead Bill]

Oh yeah, 1 more question: the only primers I could get were Winchesters but all the load data I have lists federal, should I make any adjustments?

Bill

[Chris]

Bill,
What is the load you are making... powder, primer, bullet, caliber, and what gun are you shooting it in.
Chris Christian

[Panhead Bill]

Chris,

I'm starting out with 6.0 grns of IMR 800x, Winchester primers, Armscor 230 grn FMJ bullet for my 45ACP in a Kimber Custom II.  Overall length: 1.230"

Let me know if I'm way off the mark.

Thanks,

Bill

[Chris]

Bill,
You picked one of the few handgun powders I have no experience with and no data on. But, I do know it is a slower burning powder than many other commonly used with the .45 ACP. Modest loads may not give you a complete burn rate, and may produce erratic velocities and functioning... or it may not.
A few things to look for.
(1) Does it function the gun properly (feed, fire, eject). Stand in one spot and fire five rounds. Then look at where the ejected cases landed. The five cases should be in one spot and relatively (three or four feet) close together. If one dribbles out at your feet and another flies 15 feet you are getting an erratic powder burn.
(2) Look at fired primers. They should look nicely rounded just like the unfired ones, except for the firing pin indentation. If they appear flattened you are over pressure.
(3) Look for black soot on the fired cases. If it's there it indicates you are not getting a complete powder burn with that charge. That means you need to increase the charge or shift to a faster powder.   
(4) If you have access to a chronograph then run five rounds over it. The extreme spread should not be more than 20 or so fps. Larger than that indicates an erratic burn, although not as bad as soot would.
(5) Lastly, you mentioned USPSA. They and IDPA, have required Power Factors. To make the Major Power Factor that 230 grain bullet needs a minimum velocity of 720 fps. If it doesn't you're shooting in Minor, which is a scoring disadvantage. In IDPA your gun would be shot in CDP or ESP. CDP requires a Major PF, ESP is OK with Minor. The PFs aren't important at a local club match, but at a Sanctioned match you will have your loads chronographed.
Chris Christian

[Panhead Bill]

Chris,

My local gun store also had Titegroup in stock.  I've also noticed that powder listed in several data sources.  Do you think Titegroup would be a better powder to use?

Thanks,

Bill

[Chris]

Bill
Titegroup (which I have not used) is a powder that has excellent burn characteristics for the .45 ACP. It should (and other people tell me does) produce consistent loads.

But...  see what 800X does first. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Try those loads and look at the indicators I mentioned in my previous post.

FWIW... my favorite powders for loading competition and practice loads in a .45 ACP are Win 231, HP-38, with Win WSF and Hodgdon Longshot also being good. One thing I like about WSF is that it is the BEST powder I've found for my 9mm 147 grain/880 fps competition loads (although it sucks for .38 Spl) while 231 and HP-38 are great for .38 and can work for 9mm. Having a dozen different powders for various loads doesn't appeal to me. I'm a big fan of the KISS principle.
But, don't go looking for a new .45 ACP powder until you see what 800X does for you. And, please let me know how it works out. I think it's a bit too slow for target loads, but I don't know.
Chris Christian

[54R_shooter]

You might have allready done this, if so.. good.
 Before you make a bunch of rounds, take your barrel off your gun that your reloading for.
Drop in a finished round,tap on it a little. Then make sure it spins freely, and then turn your barrel upside down. The round should drop free. If it doesnt, you need to adjust your dies a little more. Probably back off the crimp a little.Thats if you dont have a head space checker, but everyone has a barrel.
I have used winchesters  in my semi auto pistols, but i like to use cci primers.
 Kinda off subject, but if you ever reload for a semi auto rifle, make dang sure you use the recomended primer just for semi auto rifles, like a ar or an ak, for a possible slamfire.
 Ammosmith on youtube has alot of good reloading videos, some of them are kinda boring like making your own primers, but he seems to be a good source of info.
  good luck

 

[Panhead Bill]

OOPS! (not something you want to hear when talking about reloading). After loading half a dozen rounds, I triple checked and realized I was reading my dial caliper wrong and seated bullets too far. Gotta get a bullet puller and a better caliper today.

Oh well, it's all a learning process, good thing I triple-checked.

Bill

[Chris]

Bill,
I have calipers but don't use them for determining bullet seating depth. An easier way is to take a factory round in the same bullet weight/profile that you know feeds properly in your gun and set the seating die to it. I back off the bullet seating stem of the die, insert the factory round, run it up into the die, then turn the seating stem down to make firm contact. Then seat a bullet in a reload, with that die setting, and compare it to the factory round. Adjust as needed to get the same OAL. I make up dummy rounds with the various bullet types I use, store them in the appropriate die box, and can use those to quickly get the right seating depth when I change bullet types. If, for example, a 230 grain .45 ACP RN FMJ factory round feeds well in your gun, setting a 230 grain RN FMJ reload to the same point will also.
Chris Christian

[50BMG]

OOPS! (not something you want to hear when talking about reloading). After loading half a dozen rounds, I triple checked and realized I was reading my dial caliper wrong and seated bullets too far. Gotta get a bullet puller and a better caliper today.

Oh well, it's all a learning process, good thing I triple-checked.

Bill

i did a stupid thing last week i was working up some low recoil loads for my ruger LCR and i had set me powder measure with what ever powder charge i had plan on loading. so i starting loading and after about 20 rounds i notice that the case was really full of powder. so i check my powder charge once again and it was right on. so i was rechecking all the data i had to make sure and everything was correct., then i switch to my rcbs charge master and it give me over half  the powder my other digi scale was giving me. and then it came to me. the frist scale was in grams not grains. im just glad i caught it before i fired those rounds. cause i dont think they would have been low recoil.

[Christopher Burg]

I've used IMR 800X, but only in shotgun shells.  My question is how did you measure the powder?  That stuff has large flakes and my RCBS powder thrower does not like it.  I'll get variations of up to .8 grains high or low.  If you're weighing each load on a scale don't worry about that though as you'll see it an be able to correct it.  With that said the powder I generally use for .45 is Hodgdon's Universal Clays.  It pretty consistant and works for many calibers.

Either way you're dealing with a .45 auto cartridge which I personally think is one of the best cartridges to start on.  It's very low pressure (compared to 9mm and .40) and the likely hood of you screwing up so badyl that you'll damage your gun or your hands is pretty low so long as you're starting with the low end of the power scale in your source material.

You mentioned you didn't have load data for Winchester primers.  Winchester are the primary primers I use for .45 and so long as you start at the low end of the power scale (a reoccurring theme here) you should be fine.

[Panhead Bill]

Thanks for all the input. I got a coue dozen rounds of various amounts loaded up, starting at the low end and inching up. Now the problem is my local range is closed this weekend so I can't test my loads (paving the driveway/parking lot and landscaping). Sometimes I miss living in the mountains wherei could go out my back door and shoot.

Bill

[50BMG]

Sometimes I miss living in the mountains wherei could go out my back door and shoot.

Bill

iam with you there. when i live in west texas i use to test fire either right out my front door. or if it was cold i would shoot right out the window that was in my reloading/bedroom. oh course when my parents where not home. i did it once when my mom was home and i did not know she was home. and when she heard that single gunshot she came running and freak the blank out. i but i dont remeber getting into trouble. because we us to shoot coyotes right out of windows at night or the porch (the dogs not the human sugglers, that was bann long time ago) cause the coyotes would fight with our dogs and kill the cows and horses.

[r1kk1]

800x is a pain it the *** to measure effectively. I can get my JDS quick measure to do it reliably but what a pain with other measures! I have used HP-38, Bullseye (which was made for target .45 acp work, the company claims), WW 231, Unique, Trail Boss (Velocity was way down), etc. These powders work very well out of most powder measures I've used with the exception of Unique (my wife can throw this to a tenth of a grain!, I can't . Most people describe 800x as paper plates. I concur. If you have a lot of this powder you will have to be patient and weigh those loads. Another great powder with the bullseye crowd is Clays.

Have fun,

r1kk1

[Panhead Bill]

1kk1,

you're right about 800x being a pain, I've got to weigh every charge. Once I use up this can, I'll definitely be changing. It also burns too slow, although it seems to be shooting pretty accurately, I've noticed black markings on some of the spent cartridges, which if I read Chris' earlier post I'm assuming it's soot from burning too slow.

Bill

[Hank Ellis]

-snip-  I've noticed black markings on some of the spent cartridges, which if I read Chris' earlier post I'm assuming it's soot from burning too slow.

It's not that the powder is burning slow, it's that there isn't enough pressure for the case to expand to seal the chamber.

I've never used 800X so I can't add anything useful on that. For USPSA loadings in .45 a couple powders that work well are Titegroup and Clays. Regular Clays, not International or the others.

[Panhead Bill]

Since it's not all the brass (maybe 2 in 10) does it mean those few rounds might have been a little light in the powder charge or should I increase the powder in all of them?

Bill

[Chris]

Bill,
Don't exceed the maximum recommended charges, but you might want to bump the charge a bit. Slower burn powders like 800X need a certain loading density to achieve a proper burn and the generate required pressure. Black soot on the fired case is one indication that you're not getting that proper burn. Erratic velocities over a chrono (50 fps or greater spreads from the single chamber of a semi-auto) is a very strong indication. 800X is not the best powder for what I think you want to do, but since you have it you may as well use it.
Chris Christian

[Panhead Bill]

The amounts I'm loading is about in the middle of the range of what I've found in manuals, so I've got room to go up. And yeah, as soon as I finish this container off I'll be changing powders, if I wait that long (especially since I need to vet a different powder once I find bullets for loading .38 spcl)

Sunday I'll be shooting my first match since I started reloading. I'll let you know how it goes.

Bill