Need ideas on tangible reasons to own and outfit an AR15

[Alexcritter]

Hello forum members.  I just purchased my first Ar-15.  I would appreciate some specific civilian scenarios/examples for use of an AR Carbine.  Besides the very real threat of Zombies.  But really, this will help me define "my purpose" for outfitting this.  There are so many ways to trick these style rifles out I need help focusing.  Here are a few pertinent things to consider in your suggested scenarios:  I am a competent/experienced handgunner; I am right handed but left eye dominant (so I am training with the AR on both sides), I need corrective lenses (eye-glasses) and will need optic help in the case that I cannot get my glasses or they are knocked off, I am female and a parent of middle school children, my property is about 120 meters long.
Thanks for your suggestions.

[Daeglan]

Well a rifle is by far more effective than a pistol. Pistols are compromises. In the home I would grab my rifle or shotgun instead of a pistol.

[Eric R Shelton]

With eye-dominance issues (and as a matter of practice) I would recommend a GOOD red dot sight.  Not to bash anybody else, but I'm talking about EOTech or Aimpoint- maybe a Trijicon Reflex...  I have found that using these I can focus on the target and let my brain simply overlay the image of the reticle.  Nice.

I do not own, but am currently taken with the EOTech XPS.

Other than that?  A white light, in an offset mount (personal preference), and no tape/pressure switch- simply a button press at the tail of the assembly.  A Surefire G2 will do the job, and not cost an arm and a leg.

That's it.  These two piece of kit can be useful at any range, or situation a civilian may find themselves in.  At the range you've described, I may not even bother with free-floating the barrel- that's ~$300 towards an optic, instead.

[BikerRN]

Hello Alexcritter.

I keep an M4 with a "basic" set-up for vehicle/home defense.

When I say vehicle defense I mean, in case I am involved in a protracted engagement at longer distances. That is not too uncommon around these parts, as the Mexican border is within spitting distance. While the drug runners have pretty much left the "common folks" alone, it would not be unheard of to be killed for a vehicle, or my toys when I am out in the sticks.

With that said, for inside the home I prefer the shotgun, but since the Adult Supervisor, or SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) doesn't like to shoot a shotgun, even for defense, the AR/M4 is just the ticket IMHO.

I keep an EO Tech on mine that is zeroed at 200 Yards, the same as my iron sights. I really like the EO Techs and Aimpoints, as they provide fast sight acquisition, and since the red dot doesn't have to be in the center of the scope, it's great for shooting right handed with a dominant left eye. I generally shoot left handed with longarms, but do spend some time crosstraining and shooting non-dominant hand with rifles and shotguns.

The reason for the 200 Yard zero is that I've found that to give me the closest POA/POI of any zero I may use when fired at various distances. You can also use a 50 Yard zero, and be almost spot-on at 200 Yards.

My "basic" set-up is the above mentioned EO Tech, Magazine Coupler so I can have a spare magazine, and a Surefire mounted to the side. At home defense distances I've found the Surefire provides enough light, and I "bump" the Tail-Cap instead of use a pressure switch. The last item is a simple sling. I don't want, or use, a complicated sling.

I look at the M4 and decide what I'm going to put on it by asking myself if I'd want to carry the rifle on a ten mile hike with all the extra various toys, gadets and gizmos with their increased weight. At work our rifles are really "basic". No EO Tech, spare magazine goes in your pocket, and no light. In short, just like the AR/M4 that you buy off the shelf. I've "altered" mine to adapt to home defense and find the light to be a necessity as I need to identify my target.

The shotgun delivers a lot of power but is slow to reload and doesn't have the range that the rifle does. The rifle delivers a lot of bullets in a short time frame with minimal recoil. My last ditch, badguys aren't going any further as family may die if I don't stop them here is the shotgun inside the home. SWMBO prefers the M4 for this role, as the recoil is minimal. I like the shotgun for it's power and the M4 for it's versatility and ease of manuvering.

Good luck in your decisions, take care and stay safe.

Biker

[flop-shank]

I run a semi-auto M-16A1 clone. It has no lights, laser, scope or sling. Shoot the snot out of a Daisy Red Ryder, and learn to do so ambidextrously. Then use the same "for reference only" sight picture at close range with an M-16. Growing up, I lived on the outskirts of a midsized city. I could go outside and shoot, but because I was in a suburban environmnent, I did all my shooting with airguns. I learn to shoot with precision accuracy using Benjamin Franklin pellet guns and to do fast sloppy work with Daisys. Both styles can be applied to an M-16 and served me well as a grunt.

M-16 series weapons are excellent for home defense and with 55 gr. M193 type ammo oftentimes exibit less barrier penetration than normal service caliber handgun ammo.

There are more than a couple of us at work who keep weapons in our cars for the defense of our workplace and each other. My M-16 clone has been filling that niche since my Ithaca Deerslayer went out for repair. I prefer the M-16 for the job, but the Ithaca would be less expensive to replace.

[Alexcritter]

Thanks for your insights thus far.  Please keep them coming.  So I am feeling like optic assistance is necessary but not magnification.  So, for example, if a dog was mauling one of my children in our back, back yard (75m) a red dot or holographic would do the trick? 

How does flashlight illumination affect an etech?  My husband had one for a ahort while but has now switched to an acog (he is currently in Iraq and I cannot ask him these questions.

Thanks

[Daeglan]

I plan on getting the ACOG with the reflex site on top. no batteries and good for short range and X4 magnification to work further out.

White light is essential as in the civilian world you have to know your target.

[Chemsoldier]

Hmm...note the red dot and/or holosights have no optic focus function like a scope.  If you need corrective lenses to see clearly at 75 yards you will still need it with these sights.  I do not think the answer is a focusing optic necesarily though.  The answer is, depending on how your vision is, to ALWAYS have your glasses or be prepared to access your glasses before you grab a gun, a flashlight or even a cell phone.

You may want to consider ammo selection and local geometry for using the AR in an urban or suburban environment.  Think about where you may need to use the rifle.  If you are in your bedroom, you hide behind the armoir and aim at the bedroom door, what is behind that aim point?  Is it your kids bedroom? Is there a house behind that wall?  Or is it a wooded lot for 200 yards before the next house?  If you have a brick walls, berms, natural hills, long distances, ammo selection may not be as important.  If you are in a duplex you may simply not be able to safely engage at certain angles.  However I have never lived someplace where I didnt think there were some viable angles to shoot.

I know that there are reduced penetration ammunitions for ARs.  I cannot speak to them or their characteristics, someone else will have to speak to it.

My AR is my primary home defense gun as well.  I live in a house I use 55 grain ball and the house is wood and vinyl sided.  The neigbors are only 5 meters away on each side.  I still have enough angles worked out I am confidant in its viability as a defensive tool.

-Chem

[flop-shank]

Chem, you're probably as well off with the AR as anything. #4 buck, or perhaps even 00, should offer less penetration, but there are a lot more projectiles to go stray.

Thanks for your insights thus far.  Please keep them coming.  So I am feeling like optic assistance is necessary but not magnification.  So, for example, if a dog was mauling one of my children in our back, back yard (75m) a red dot or holographic would do the trick?

You might hit the kid. I'd literally charge screaming like a wild man in that situation. If a dog is harming your baby, you'll know what to do. Beat it with the rifle. Shoot only if there is, of course, a clear shot. If I were to take such a shot I would still use my Red Ryder style and iron sights. I don't want, or need sights that are dependant on batteries. YMMV

[MasAyoob]

Flop nailed it.

At 75 meters, even the best police sniper with a 10X scope atop a sub-minute of angle sniper rifle would not attempt a rescue shot in a dynamic situation with a dog on top of the kid, moving rapidly. The chances of striking the child, particularly with an AR-type platform, with the aiming device two inches above the bore axis, are just too great.

[Chris]

Alexcritter,
What upper do you have? If it's a straight flat top it gives you increased options on sights. If it's a A2 (integral carry handle/front sight) or A3 style (detachable carry handle and integral front sight) your options narrow because of the hardware on the upper. The Aimpoint Comp 4 will co-index with A2/A3 sights, allowing their use if the battery dies or the unit is not turned on. There is no magnification. The new Burris AR 332 is a 3x (3 power magnification) sight that works with or without batteries. If the batteries are in and on you can illuminate the reticle in red or green. No batteries and the reticle is black. The reticle is designed for CQB, but provides decent accuracy at extended ranges. It rides high enough that the integral front sight in not a distraction... but does not co-index with A2/A3 sights. I have one on a A3 upper (removed the carry handle) and like it a lot.
My flat top upper runs a 2.5-10x scope with a Burris Fast Fire red dot on top of the scope mount. The red dot is quick for close range (inside 30 yards) with a heads up position, while the scope allows MOA to 300 yards, with the right loads. The type of upper you have will largely determine what you can use.
Chris Christian 

[Alexcritter]

Great!  This is the conversation I need to keep me thinking straight.  The many options are like the many options of chrome you can put on your Harley.

I like to wrap my brain around different scenarios.  I believe it allows me to contemplate a situation before I may face them, and of course, if I have contemplated the possibility of a situation I am more likely to prevent it from happening by just being aware of its possibility (is this paranoid?).

The dog possibility is a real one as a neighbor a few doors down has two tied up to chains and have gotten loose.  I cannot keep my kids inside out of fear, I have taught them how to be aware of them and to hope into our tree fort if they see them loose.  I will tell you from a separate experience you will not get a dog of something by hitting it, unless you can get lucky enough during the commotion to shatter its head.

I do totally see the value of a shotgun.....my rationale, or rather understanding of what I can do with the AR should suffice until I am ready to move to that platform. 

I have the A3 style, detachable carry handle and fixed front sight.  But I can change the latter, cant I?

I like the idea of thinking about angles within the house.

What other scenarios might you imagine or have actually heard of someone defending themselves with an AR that I may "contemplate."

[Chris]

Alexcritter,
I'm not enough of a gun mechanic to say whether or not the A2 front sight can be changed, but I suspect it could be changed to a straight gas block.
As to scenarios requiring the AR for deadly force/SD use; they are no different than with any other firearm.... see/identify threat, put sights on target, press trigger, repeat as needed. I don't mean that to sound flippant. It's just basic. And, the range to the target doesn't change any of that. You need a rifle that is reliable and will work as intended when needed...and sights you can quickly see and align with the target. As for the best loads to use... if you're looking for loads that have the minimum chance of over penetration I would suggest 40 grain hollowpoint varmint rounds, or 50 grain polymer tipped rounds. Federal, Winchester, and others make good loads in that category. Military loads are designed for greater penetration, and are not IMHO good choies for civilian/urban SD.
Chris Christian     

[S391]

I do not own, but am currently taken with the EOTech XPS.

As well you should be for it is a fantastic optic!

[Chemsoldier]

Reasons to own an AR:

1. It irritates hippies
2. The kids love them (seriously, noisy with low recoil)
3. Good for multiple attacker situations, I think it was the 2005 Toledo riots where a group of rioters were trying to get into a building (an apartment I think) there were three or four taking turns kicking in a door.  When the door went down about 15 people streamed into the place, shortly there after the building went up in flames.  A thirty round magazine in a self-loading configuration is just the thing.  Add in a couch or something to place in front of the entry way (what the military calls a fixing obstacle) to slow them down while you shoot, and after the third or fourth invader they should get the picture.
4.  Parts, components and magazines are ubiquitous.  Of all the standard capacity magazines on the market, notice that during the 1994 mag ban, AR mags stayed cheap since the army considers mags to be expendable items. Additionally in the last 6 years the AR-15 has become the standard for military pattern rifles with the majority of all training classes for carbine/rifle operators designed around it.
5. Power: While a kitten compared to the "serious" rifles of yesteryear (older military rifles shooting .30-06, 8mm Mauser, .308, 7.62x54R, etc.) The .223 is still a "real" rifle cartridge with rifle power. Targets do not like getting hit with it, especially at close range.  It is prudent to note that anything worth shooting once is worth shooting two+ times. 
6. Range: While the chances of you needing to make defensive shots at long range are slim, the AR is more than capable of it if needed.  Additionally an AR is brilliant at intermidiate ranges like 25-50 yards.  At ranges where you need to concentrate hard with a pistol you will have a much easier time hitting with an AR (and most longarms to be fair.
7. Reliability: Piston or no piston, gun go bang.  If you clean the thing after you shoot it, store it in your house and lube it a few times a year if you dont shoot it there should not be a problem.  If you are going to put 20K rounds a year and take it to carbine classes in arctic conditions and stuff OK maybe you need an expensive piston gun.  Otherwise it is plenty reliable.
8. AR is bringing sexy back:  It has sleek lines, black goes with everything and with a few accesories like a white light, is suitable for most occasions from slippers and a night shirt to black tie.

-Chem

[flop-shank]

Chem, that was a great post.

Alex, unarmed, I had to go hands on with a 95 lb. german sheppard about four years ago. I'm not a huge guy (5'7"/185 lbs. at the time) but I won decisively (O.K. my prize was a trip to the hospital and a half pint + of lost blood, but I did win). Don't sell yourself short. Your skills and your attitude can carry the day.  

[BikerRN]

Not to derail the thread, but I do keep a knife handy for dogs.

It will entail getting bit, but if I'm already getting bit what does that matter? Sometimes you don't have a safe backstop when dealing with a dog, so a knife may be the appropriate weapon at times. I can recall one such incident where the attacking dog was shot, but the bullet richocheted and struck the dog owner in the leg. Can you say, big oops?

If the dog is already "on" what it's attacking another good method is to pick up it's hind legs. Then you can swing the dog and slam it into the pavement, repeatedly, so that it doesn't turn and attack you.

One more word of advice with dogs, if you do go the knife route, give it the non-dominant arm and go low with the knife and rip high, sort of like gutting a critter for field dressing.

Biker

[ZEBRA NINER]

Why do these threads always turn into a sadistic dog murdering fantasies? 

[BikerRN]

Why do these threads always turn into a sadistic dog murdering fantasies? 

For some of us they are not fantasy and I was merely providing another option where the firearm may not be appropriate.

I own dogs myself, but dogs are not people and I will never put an animal life above a person's. The thread turned at some point when the OP was asking about using an AR/M4 to defend a loved one at a longer distance that was being attacked by a dog I do believe.

The point I was trying to make was that there are many ways to deal with an attacking dog that do not involve a firearm. Would I use a gun to defend myself, or another person, from a dog attack? Yes, if circumstances were right to do so. However many times the circumstances are not correct and you must still play the hand you were dealt.

Like I said, for some of us this is not fantasy, as some of us may have dealt with something of this nature in the past without the use of a firearm.

Biker

[ZEBRA NINER]

Biker,

Just messing with you... dog murderer!

*runs away crying*