10 mm

[cornmastah]

If you have a ton, I would be interested in some too.  Pm me the price and details if it is still available.

[97XJ_Sport]

I'd like a pm too if you don't mind.

[97XJ_Sport]

Also, to those wondering about recoil in a G29, it is very manageable.

[Damian]

I don't pretend to know as much about ballistics as most of you on this forum.

Here is an interesting video I found on the Glock 10mm round.  Not sure where he got the data but he claims it's more powerful than a .357 Magnum and just under the .41 Magnum.

What are your thoughts?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZAv_hM13Pc&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZAv_hM13Pc&rel=0</a>

[Mark Vanderberg]

10 mm brass is gone. Thanks, Ryan

[Charlie Foxtrot]

.
Isn't the 10mm the big brother of the .40SW, Shelton?

I've got a G20, and like it a lot.  In my big paws it's very accurate at the slow fire rates mandated by the indoor ranges around me.  Rapid fire?  Gotta admit, I'm not all that eager to find out.  

The G20 is pretty much a safe queen until I start reloading for it.  Factory 10 is pricey.  Good news is that the 10 is pretty much a reloading tinker's dream: heavy bullet and fast to light and very fast.  

[Chris]

From a pure ballistic standpoint the 10mm falls midway between the .357 Magnum and the .41 Magnum in terms of energy, and is closer to the .41/44 Mag in terms of real World Performance. From the 3.80 inch barrel of my Glock 29 the factory Winchester 175 grain Silvertip (IMHO, the Gold Standard for SD in 10mm) clocks 1250 fps. That's about the max amount of power you can put into a package that size. Ballistic medium tests I have done from the G29 show the Hornady 200 grain XTP penetrates as far as their 240 grain .44 Magnum XTP (from a 6 inch barrel) while expanding to .65+ caliber, and the Cor-Bon 180 grain Bonded Soft Point penetrates as far as the 300 grain XTP .44 Mag (from a 6 inch barrel) and expands to .53-55 caliber. That's serious power from a compact 11 shot semi-auto that I can conceal under an untucked tee-shirt.
The 10mm is nothing to sneer at. I've shot a couple of wild hogs with that G29 (200 grain XTP) at ranges under 30 yards and they dropped just as dead as if I had whacked them with my .44 Mag.
Chris Christian

[Damian]

Thanks for the input Chris.  I am just now getting into Ballistics and trying to wrap my head around it as much as possible.  My knowledge at this point is limited to this one fact.  I keep putting lead into the target until it stops.  :-)

[Devereaux]

There you go! As the saying goes, "Don't shoot it until you think it's dead - shoot it until IT thinks it's dead!"

[Devereaux]

I don't own either a 10mm or a .41 Mag. I DO own a .357 Mag and a .44 Mag.

There is little disagreement that a .44 Mag is overkill for a defensive firearm. It has the very real possibility of penetrating the BG - and the guy behind him, and maybe the guy behind HIM. The .357 has an enviable record in gunfights. Real cops in real gunfights have raved about the 125 load and its ability to shock an opponent into inactivity.

The .41 Mag was touted as the "policeman's gun" when it first came out, but never managed to catch on. It is now a rarity, almost collectable in how often you see it - or the ammo for it. The 10mm came to fame when the FBI decided to take it as their standard sidearm. However, I believe they came to the conclusion that it was just too powerful, and ended up carrying a load that is substantially less than a full-house 10mm load. I don't know all the details of that decision, but I do know that the 10mm kind of disappeared from the FBI arsenal. ?So what has changed about it. If 130gr at 1400fps is such a man-stopper, ?why is 130gr at 1600fps better. ?Isn't it more likely to perforate rather than just penetrate. ?Aren't you in danger of not only destroying your opponent, but also potentially seriously injuring someone who might be behind them.

[Gandalf]

Doesn't the .357 mag have the same issues with over-penetration though?

[Chris]

The 125 grain JHP (Win, Fed, Rem, Cor-Bon) .357 Magnum does, to the best of my knowledge, have no issues with over penetration. Some 10mm loads will over penetrate. Those that... in my experience... will not over penetrate are the 175 grain Winchester Silvertip (my personal favorite, and a "Gold Standard" for SD use in 10mm), and the Cor-Bon 135 & 150 JHPs. I don't know if the latter are still made or offered, but
my ballistic medium tests on them show that they are quite exposive upon impact and will fragment quickly. They are cranking 1300-1400 fps from a full-sized 10mm, so that's pretty explosive. The problem with 10mm loads is that many are loaded to .40 S&W velocities, and that's the performance you get. Other loads do deliver a higher level of SD performance. You just need to know which ones do.
Chris Christian

[Devereaux]

OK, Chris. ?Are the ones you mention the ONLY ones that are worth a tinker's dam, or are there others. ?Is there a simple source for this info, or do you have to have a lot of experience and good connections. I, for one, have never found the 10mm to be much of an interesting round, so I have none. You can use a .44 Mag to hunt much better, and you can use a .357 Mag, or the newer .357 Sig to devastating effect as an SD gun, so I've just never gone to a 10mm, especially with some of the stories about them. One of my good friends was an FBI agent, and he hated the round. But he's dead, so I can't tap him for specifics. Don't know any cops that carry a 10mm other than Damian, here on the forum.

Seems more like a big round without a home.

[Chris]

Dev,
For SD use against two-legged critters and thin skinned four legged ones (mountain lions and wolves come to mind here) the three I mentioned above would be my choices. For field use, the 180 grain Cor-Bon BCSP and the 200 grain Hornady XTP are preferred. Those are the best performing loads for the intended tasks in my tests. Federal used to make a 180 grain Classic JHP that was also devastating, but I don't think it is available anymore. There is not a large selection of what I consider top notch loads in this caliber, likely due to a lack of demand.
Chris Christian

[K_Daniel]

How does the corbon 150 and 135gr loads do in SD shootings? Do any departments use corbon in any caliber?

[Chris]

Daniel,
I don't know of any Depts using Cor-Bon, probably due to cost. There may be some, but I'm not aware of them. Nor, am I aware of any documented OIS with them.
Chris Christian

[Chemsoldier]

Here is an interesting thought on the 10mm.  I shot a night match in 2005 and tried to put a buddies Glock brand weapons light (incandescent) on my G20.  The first round of full power ammo blew the bulb. That is some kick.  I assume the LEDs dont have that problem, I havent fired the G20 with my new TLR-1 yet.

I think that the 10mm may have a specialty niche for well trained, rural LE Agencies.  A rural agency that deals with putting down animals, has the potential for more long range shots, and operate in areas that dont have the population density of larger cities and that is fairly progressive in training their officers might find it useful.  Park Ranger types might like it, with the fact that most threats to the safety of rangers come from people it is probably better to equip them with autos but 10mm gives them their best handgun for dealing with dangerous animals.  Good characteristics for shooting threats in automobiles.

-Chem

[BikerRN]

Here is an interesting thought on the 10mm.  I shot a night match in 2005 and tried to put a buddies Glock brand weapons light (incandescent) on my G20.  The first round of full power ammo blew the bulb. That is some kick.  I assume the LEDs dont have that problem, I havent fired the G20 with my new TLR-1 yet.

I think that the 10mm may have a specialty niche for well trained, rural LE Agencies.  A rural agency that deals with putting down animals, has the potential for more long range shots, and operate in areas that dont have the population density of larger cities and that is fairly progressive in training their officers might find it useful.  Park Ranger types might like it, with the fact that most threats to the safety of rangers come from people it is probably better to equip them with autos but 10mm gives them their best handgun for dealing with dangerous animals.  Good characteristics for shooting threats in automobiles.

-Chem

I think you just hit the "nail on the head" so to speak.

I look at the 10mm as a nice compromise between the .357 and the .44 calibers with the ability to custom tailor the load to the application.

Biker

[TravisLeibold]

I always thought that 10mm would make one heck of a sub-gun or pistol-caliber carbine round. Like out of a short-barrel AR upper or Uzi/MP5 platform. Better range and flatter shooting than a .45 and way more punch than a 9mm. Could get expensive though!

[RangeRat]

You guys are a terrible influence.  I just ordered a few boxes of the 45 Auto Plus P 165gr Pow'RBall.  Have to hit the indoor range, outdoors is hovering in the teens this week