The eternal question-PC or Mac?

[Migo]

...It's why I would still take a 1911 over pretty much any other auto out there, and I own most of them anyway. But I have more 1911's that all the rest combined. Old guys just don't change much - or fast.

I just wanted to add that I would choose a 1911 over a PC any day of the week, and that sometimes a 1911 is the perfect tool to fix my PC problems.

[SirBrass]

...It's why I would still take a 1911 over pretty much any other auto out there, and I own most of them anyway. But I have more 1911's that all the rest combined. Old guys just don't change much - or fast.

I just wanted to add that I would choose a 1911 over a PC any day of the week, and that sometimes a 1911 is the perfect tool to fix my PC problems.

I think that wins the entire argument.

Mac or PC?

Answer: 1911

[Alex Haddox]

I had no idea there were this many fellow geeks in here. No wonder I've felt so at home!

Geeks with guns. Is anyone else a little afraid?

[SirBrass]

I had no idea there were this many fellow geeks in here. No wonder I've felt so at home!

Geeks with guns. Is anyone else a little afraid?

Not really .  At home or on the internet, we're there to protect you 

[Mark Vanderberg]

I have five PCs, 3 desktops and 2 laptops all running Windows 7. One of them I run a virtual machine that I can run OS X in. Just a major geek that enjoys all the technology out there, my pocketbook just doesn't allow me to purchase Mac hardware. But if anybody's has an extra MacBook Pro you'd like to send my way, i'll give you my address.

PC vs. Mac I'll take 5 of each wars over.

[SirBrass]

Macbook Air's are now being sold for sub-$1000.  That's a screamin' deal for OSX-running netbooks (apple won't admit it, but that IS what the Air is).

[Eric R Shelton]

Actually, I'd disagree that the Air is a netbook unless your sole qualifier for the moniker is lack of an optical drive.  The iPad is closer to their netbook- lower powered processor, doesn't run the same OS as the desktops, not really for doing "serious" work on and better suited for light computing like web browsing, email, and maybe some Word files.

The Air is a full-blown laptop, that is faster and more powerful and has more "disc space" than my 4 year old MacBook and for less money.  Some will lament the Core 2 Duo processor instead of the i3, but ArsTechnica has an article explaining that with the GPU the Core 2 Duo is actually faster in this application.  The only thing netbook-ish about the Air (aside from the light weight) is the lack of an optical drive- but I really just see this as the evolution of when the iMac debuted without a floppy drive.  People thought that was nuts at time.  But the OS comes on a USB drive, and content can be had by digital distribution.  Optical media isn't dead by any stretch (neither was the floppy, at the time), but it isn't truly needed.  Steve Jobs actually said himself, this is what they think all laptops will be in the future.

Windows 7 Starter ain't really Windows 7.  Conversely, the Air runs honest-to-god OS X.  The Air ain't a netbook, my friend.

[SirBrass]

It functions as one: small, portable laptop without all the bulk and fuss of a full blown portable desktop (that's really what modern laptops are.... they're too BIG and HOT to truly be laptops and don't have the battery life to seriously be mobile).  The Air is more like a netbook than the other laptops are.  Sure it isn't running a crappy stripped-down version of OSX (iOS is in no way shape or form a netbook OS... the iPad is an over-grown iPod Touch, nothing more.... that qualifies as a mobile tablet, not a netbook or net tablet), but in function and intended use it works as a netbook.

[Charlie Foxtrot]

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I've been suborned: I've gone Apple, and bought an iTouch.  

I wanted a net-portable device that wouldn't require me to find a seat and a table or lap. I like reading from a handheld electronic device (currently a Palm Tungsten e), and would really like portable web access. I've got very comfortable chairs and the bed, which are no where near an acceptable surface for a netbook. Unfortunately, the Android / WinPhone tablets won't be available until sometime next year. So, I'm about to drink the Steve Jobs kool-aid.

Hopefully, it'll be just a small sip.

If you find me alongside a road, glassy-eyed, unshaven, wearing an Apple t-shirt, surrounded by cute, wildly overpriced electronics; just shoot me.  

[Eric R Shelton]

Sure it isn't running a crappy stripped-down version of OSX, but in function and intended use it works as a netbook.

Again, it's just as or more capable than my MacBook.  The same MacBook on which I do a weekly podcast, edit video that looks better than anything I've seen from Windows software, have authored DVDs with animated menus, etc. (Granted, that would require the Air to have the external optical drive.)  All that, and it's got a better graphics card that could play legitimate games, run full-blown professional programs like Photoshop, etc.  Just because some people may use it as a netbook doesn't mean that is it's function or intended use.  It's way too powerful to be so dismissive of it.  Rather, it's more fair to say that lots of people who buy it would be equally satisfied by a netbook's functionality.

I couldn't make do with a netbook.  I would, however, buy the new Air to replace my MacBook.

(And while it's easy to dismiss the iPad as nothing more than an overgrown iTouch, the physical profile does pretty much change the entire way you interact with it.  That everybody is now trying to make "me-too!" products is a pretty good indicator that Apple has created a whole new market segment.  But it's faster, has a better screen than netbooks, is a better media device, has all the functionality of a netbook...  Once iOS matures so you don't need to sync the thing to iTunes to load movies, etc. I would consider it.  Right now it needs a little more time in the oven- it's note quite done yet...)

[SirBrass]

Not arguing against the iPad's selective usefulness (outside of a small segment, most of its appeal is in novelty... as it's an inferior e-reader to a Kindle, which has a vastly superior display for the reading of text for long periods of time, and most folks won't use it to control their keynote presentations on their macbooks , and it's a little overgrown as a mobile gaming device), just saying what it is.

And I'm arguing for intended functionality and sheer portability.  Obviously the Air is highly capable as it is a full-function laptop without an optical drive (something I'm not complaining too much about... my iMac's optical drive is rarely RARELY used these days except when I have to insert some arcane DVD or CD for some immediate purpose), but its sheer portability and form factor make it useful in those areas where someone would desire a netbook:  blogging conventions, mobile computing-on-the-go, etc.  Except it can do more.  That is where netbooks can be useful, and where the Air as a full-featured laptop can compete with them being only several hundred $$ more, but with over twice the bang for your buck that you'd get with it.

[Eric R Shelton]

Ah, gotcha.  I misunderstood you earlier.  Personally, I'm still not quite willing to go without optical media.  I own a few DVD movies (not many, but I love 'em and actually re-watch flicks like Black Hawk Down), or have to burn the occasional disc for a friend with dial up.  I've even used my MacBook to save the day at work, as I have editing programs and software the Air Force doesn't, and since there's a moratorium on using USB thumb drives on DOD computers a burnt disc is the only way to transfer the data to/from the network.  (Unclass only, guys.  LOL.)

Actually, on that topic...  While I like streaming movies, and even that my Rambo box set came with a digital copy of the latest movie, I'm a special features geek!  I love listening to commentaries, etc. and that's something that so far seems distinctly lacking in the purely digital distribution model.  I'm just saying...

[SirBrass]

Well, you can easily get or put together an external optical drive with USB 2.0 for use when you need a DVD player/burner.

[Charlie Foxtrot]

.
Been playing with my iPad Touch for a day now.  Pretty cool.  Probably somewhat worth the 300 bucks I paid. 

However... I'm accustomed to be able to tweak the settings the way I want -- not Steve Jobs' way.

[SirBrass]

CF, that's why I have an Android phone (rooted, deodexed, deblurred, under-volted, and overclocked.... screw you Moto!), even with the bootloader still locked down.  Motorola can't keep us out .  I can tweek my Mac too.  It's called sudo and the terminal CLI .

I love it when things are *nix-based (which OSX most DEFINITELY is.... it's just AQUA running on a tweeked unix kernel.... and Apple so kindly provides a direct CLI into the kernel, including running bash fully functional).

[Charlie Foxtrot]

.
Uh, WTF did you just say?

Remember, I'm a biz geek... Admittedly, a computer savy one - I can recognize a computer nearly every time.  I'm fluent in Windows, Mac, and I'm learning Ubuntu and Jive.    

I'm really looking forward to the 7 inch Android and winPhone tablets coming next year. The iTouch is a might small - the iPad too big (a MaxiPad.)  However, I DON'T want the damn $90 a month cell plan that goes with a fully connected device.  With the iTouch, I'm finding plenty of unlocked WiFi routers to "borrow" on my travels. Skype is pretty kewl.    

[Eric R Shelton]

Have you actually used an iPad for any length of time?  They really are cool, and there's no way I'd want to step down to an 8 or 7 inch screen.  The whole joy of it is it's size!  It's like going from an old tube tv to a plasma HDTV.  It's a great media consumption device/toy/third computer.

[SirBrass]

I can't find unlocked wi-fi connections worth a hang.  That's why my iPod Touch gets so little use other than a car iPod (the headunit sorts through it MUCH faster than it does my iPod Classic).

Now, as to what I meant.

Rooted:  I have unlocked superuser access to my phone, thus giving me access to the / directory (aka root), and thus all the advantages that come with.

Deodexed: The programs which collectively use separate odex files (end in .odex, iirc) have had their odex components placed back within them and the .odex files removed.  This allows for theming of the system files, especially the framework.apk file (.apk is the standard extension for android application packages)

Deblurred: All non-essential Motoblur applications have been removed from the phone.  This requires root access and some tweaking and replacing with the original vanilla android apps which moto replaced with their own bloat-ware (which we collectively refer to as Blur, even though it isn't strictly the original Motoblur)

Undervolted:  Something not thought possible with the stock kernel, however it has been done on the Droid X and Droid 2 despite the bootloader remaining unlocked.  Under volting means running the processor at a lower voltage than originally intended.  This can save battery life and heat, at the expense of stability.  Experimentation is required to find the lowest voltage level per clock speed (there are 4 slots available for the processor, each having a specific clock speed and voltage level assigned) under which the processor runs with acceptable stability.  As each chip is very unique on these terms, there is no set optimized voltage level/clock speed combo that will work for EVERY chip other than the stock speeds and voltages.

Overclocked:  Just what you think it is.  Same thing as done with a computer.  I'm currently running my Droid X with OC settings of 400/900/1000/1300 (in MHz).  Stock speeds were 300/500/800/1000.  I'm running this at a preset voltage designated LV (low voltage.... it isn't stable at ULV.... ultra-low voltage), though the dev of the OC program hasn't released what his selected vsel values (the variable vsel is the variable for each clock/voltage slot which sets the voltage for that slot).

This goes way beyond a stock android user does, but it's available and NOT hard to do to an android phone, even one with a locked-down bootloader like the Droid X (damn you Moto!).  With the bootloader still locked down, the dev community has STILL managed within the space of a few short months to: get a custom recovery working (all koush's doing.... he is the recovery methods master for android), develop simple rooting methods, release a variety of custom system ROMs (just not full ones with optimized kernels) of which I have chosen to use TranQuility 3.0, overclock and undervolt, and of course theme.

Can't do all that even with a jailbroken iPhone.

Witness the power of open-source and a driven community of independent devs .

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Have you actually used an iPad for any length of time?  They really are cool, and there's no way I'd want to step down to an 8 or 7 inch screen.  The whole joy of it is it's size!  It's like going from an old tube tv to a plasma HDTV.  It's a great media consumption device/toy/third computer.

Nope, played with one at the Apple Store.  Distinct impressions were its size and weight -- and the considerable WOW factor.  It is VERY cool.  

However, I'm looking for a solution about the size of a paperback.  I want to slip it in a pocket, or in my case; a smoking jacket ( ;^)' ) for reading in bed, on the plane, and in those odd spare minutes during the day.  Mostly for content access: podcasts, e-books and web.  Although, I'm already finding myself jotting notes into iTouch Evernote and the Office2 apps.  Something just a bit larger than the iTouch would suit amiably.  

[mistertaco]

Overclocked:  Just what you think it is.  Same thing as done with a computer.  I'm currently running my Droid X with OC settings of 400/900/1000/1300 (in MHz).  Stock speeds were 300/500/800/1000.  I'm running this at a preset voltage designated LV (low voltage.... it isn't stable at ULV.... ultra-low voltage), though the dev of the OC program hasn't released what his selected vsel values (the variable vsel is the variable for each clock/voltage slot which sets the voltage for that slot).

SirBrass, I have a related question for you  at http://gunrightsradio.com/forums2/index.php/topic,5091.0.html

-Lee