Interview with a Liberal Democrat concealed carry instructor

[Bob Mayne]

Just posted Episode 61 (www.handgunworld.com) - Interview with a Liberal Democrat concealed carry instructor.  Steve requested that I start this thread.  If you have any questions for him or for me, please post them here.  You can also send him a private email at firearmsclass@earthlink.net

[Steve R]

Bob,

Thanks for the chance to chat. I hope that people see that an instructor is an instructor.

Cheers,
Steve R.

[Dale]

Bob and Steve,
Enjoyed the podcast...great interview.

Bob...I know what you mean about some of the people taking the CHL classes.  I took mine at DFW range and the guy in the lane right next to me could barely load his magazine let alone operate his pistol.  His class was the first time he had even fired that gun, and by the looks of it he didn't have much experience with any firearm.  I agree with you, I am glad he was there taking the class, but like Steve said, I wouldn't want him to draw his weapon while he was behind me.

There was a group of security guards that were taking a class so they would be able to be armed security guards.  They were shooting on the range ahead of us and one of them was ejected because he didn't know how to operate his firearm and another was ejected for failing to follow safety rules (like DO NOT sweep every one).

[Bob Mayne]

And they are suppose to be armed security guards?  God help us.  That's why we need to carry a gun.

[Steve R]

Dale,

Thanks for your post, you bring up a very valid statement and concern.

I have to say it seems you hit the nail on the head... so to say.

Just cause someone wants to carry a gun, doesn't mean they have the skill to do so. The damage a non skilled security guard or a CC permit holder with a gun can do to the gun rights movement is beyond measure. These are the type of people that the Brady group are looking for to use an an example of why guns are bad. 

If you want to carry a gun, yes you have the right.....but no one is born with the skill to do so. So train, train, train and then do even more training.

Sorry if I seem to be ranting...but I would like an America where everyone carries and knows how to do so!

Okay stepping off my soap box... not to say I won't step back up on it later....

Cheers,
Steve

[bshupe]

Hi Bob (Steve),

Great show as always but..... I do want to point something out.

The second amendment says nothing more nor less than that our right to "keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". There is no provision for training, intelligence, proficiency or any other quality that might make you or the general public feel safer around people who carry a handgun or rifle.

People can agree or disagree about things like the tactical (dis)advantages to open carry but what does that have to do with the second amendment? Nothing.

I am not in any way opposed to training but training is to make me proficient and more prepared for the unfortunate instance when I might need to defend myself not to make others feel comfortable around me. If someone feels uncomfortable around me and my firearm they need training/education about firearms and freedom for that matter.

Please don’t hear this as a puffed-up ego rant but rather as a warning about boxing in our right guaranteed by the constitution as something that is for the trained or proficient. We have enough people and groups around trying to undermine our rights we should be so careful to not help them out.

I think Arizona is on the right track in that regulations of any kind are in fact an infringement of our rights even if the infringements are agreeable to those in and out of the firearms community.

The primary nature of our rights and freedoms is that they are mainly self-governing. I understand that there are those in the world who cannot handle the responsibilities associated with these freedoms but that is largely because we have been constructing a nanny state for such a long time. De-regulation and less government (intervention) is the road to freedom not figuring out how to make better/more rules to make people responsible as though that ever has or ever will work. Those who lack the skills or desire to live free and responsibly can be dealt with without infringements on others who are law abiding responsible citizens.

Thanks again for the show!

Bob

[Bob Mayne]

Well, very good points.  I like your tag line by the way, that's a good one.  I hear you 100%, that's why I said I "struggled" with the whole issue.  You've heard me say that I actually agree with Ted Nugent that the "2nd amendment is my concealed carry permit."  I will always stand on the side of our 2nd amendment and ALL of the other amendments too.  I believe we have to accept ALL of the amendments, not pick and choose.  But that's another issue.  As I've heard Mark Vanderberg say...I"m a one issue voter...that one issue is the Constitution.

I "struggle" with the need for firearm training issue because a firearm is a lethal weapon to begin with, it becomes even more lethal in the hands of a careless untrained person.  In fact, I submit that an untrained person with a gun, could be more of danger to himself than he would be if he didn't have a gun at all.  Some of the people in my concealed carry renewal class were down right dangerous and really do themselves a disservice by not knowing how to even operate their firearm properly.  I still scratch my head wondering how they will be able to defend themselves.  

Your points are difficult to argue with and I guess if I were to be forced to make a choice between requiring training or the 2nd amendment goes away...that's a no-brainer.  I choose the 2nd amendment, not the training.

The primary point of my interview with Steve is...GET TRAINING!  As always thanks for listening to my show and an alternate opinion like yours is always welcome.  This is what I enjoy...an alternate opinion.  Keep them coming.

[Dale]

Just thinking out loud here and that really makes my head hurt but...Would we or anyone be having this conversation about Freedom of Speech?  Everyone has the right to free speech, but you can only be a reporter if you have had training...I know, they should come to us for training  .  We have all probably seen public speakers that do very well, and some not so well.  Some speakers can do well without training, but the more they speak in front of people (practice) the better they get at it.  just like the more we go to the range the better we get at it (hopefully).

I agree that It's ALL about the 2nd amendment FIRST, and I think the responsible thing to do is to get training and practice, but it is not a requirement, just as it is not a requirement to have training before you stand up and speak out.

As I said, just some thinking, so now you see what happens in my head from time to time.

[bshupe]

Thanks for your kind follow up Bob. Your "struggling" sounds an awful lot like fence sitting to me. lol

I listened to your latest show today and I was interested to hear your comments on the law in TN getting the veto. I thought this was an excellent example of how laws and regulations undermine our rights for irrational reasons.

While I am for freedom generally, IF I was forced to choose I would rather have everyone open carrying than one Adam Henry in a bar with a loaded gun. In the first case, a person who lacks training, discipline or civic responsibility has a pretty small opportunity to cause and harm to self or others. In the second scenario, there is a high probability of the firearm coming out sooner and with less restraint and being used in a destructive/offensive way. And yet, you are up in arms about the law being overturned but on the fence about open carry.

It is possible that your struggle comes from confliction not indecision. Think through the principles then apply them to scenarios not the other way around and I think you will struggle less.

Thanks again for the show and this discussion.

By the way, I did listen to the rest of the show and enjoyed it.

Bob

[Bob Mayne]

By the way, a guy kicked my butt in IDPA yesterday, shooting an M&P Pro yesterday.  Just thought you might appreciate knowing that.  I was shooting my Glock 34.  (But its NOT the gun  )

As I've mentioned in previous shows I'm leaning towards supporting open carry completely. And supporting Ted Nugent's position "the 2nd Amendment IS my concealed carry permit."  What I would really like to see is some evidence that Open Carry states have lower crime than do concealed carry states.  That would be interesting. 

The more I struggle with properly concealing my Glock 19...the more I think I favor open carry! 

[bshupe]

Im glad to hear that M&P is making a (good) showing at matches.

I carry my M&P 40 everyday in either a Summer Comfort or a Minotaur and I know what you mean about open carry being useful for those not so fresh moments.

[Steve R]

I have to say I very much enjoy this forum. It is great to see a place to talk and discuss a topic and not flame and rant.

I appreciate what the the posters are saying.

From my closing comments on the show everyone was correct that the 2nd is more important than training.

I just ask that others see it from an instructors perspective. What one encounters Instructing is different than going to the range and running into fiends.  A great deal of people wanting their permits have never shot and need a great deal of training to be able to carry safely.

Therefore I'm a bit strong on the training issue.

Cheers,
Steve

[Bob Mayne]

I'd like to clear up something that may have been misunderstood.  In my interview with Steve, the issue of the Brady Campaign was brought up.  What was meant by the statement that the Brady Group was originally a Republican organization was not meant to say they were part of the Republican Party or endorsed by the Republican party.  But rather, that Mr. Brady served Ronald Reagan and prior to being shot, received distinguished awards from the Republican Party.  http://data.bradycampaign.org/about/jimandsarahbio.php

Now, as we all know...they Brady Campaign is complete WRONG on the gun control issue.  Their backing is from liberals who are completely wrong on the 2nd amendment and who's only goal is to disarm the public who may oppose their agenda. 

Please realize I do not support the Brady Campaign in any way and will do everything in my power to defeat their agenda.

Thank you,
Bob Mayne
Handgun World Show
www.handgunworld.com

[haskovez]

Just on this episode today Bob as I have been catching up from the beginning.  I wanted to correct a mistake I heard in the discussion on national reciprocity.  You mentioned that you didn't want the federal government involved but the Bill as written didn't involve the Federal Government.  It stated simply that any state which issue's concealed carry permits must accept concealed carry permits from any other state.  So if the law would have passed there still would have been no carry in Illinois and Wisconsin (or DC), but basically it would end all the state level agreements.  It is basically making a carry permit work like a license.  I don't need a MN driver's license for when I go home to visit my family so if I had my Texas Carry Permit (planning on getting it in July) I shouldn't need a MN carry permit to carry up there.  I think as it stands right now MN doesn't accept Texas Carry Permits.  Anyway the law as written was good because it is still up to the states to control the permits and keeps the federal government out of that aspect.

[Bob Mayne]

Thanks for clearing that up!  I didn't know that. In that case I think it was good legislation. I wish it would have passed. But still, it wouldn't have gone far enough. We need to be able to carry in EVERY state, whether they allow CCW or not. If we can drive in every state we should be able to carry in every state. Period. It still makes me nervous when the FED govt gets involved in anything. But a bill that would give us the national right to carry I would probably have to support. We shouldn't even need a license as it's already a right guaranteed in the Constitution. But being the way it is, a national CCW license is what we should have right now. Then I wouldn't have to have 3 of them!