Lever Action Issue ---- Gunsmith Referral

[Tennessee Jed]

Doc (and others),

First, let me say how much I enjoy your podcast.  It's always a pleasure when a new one comes out.  Knowing your passion for the lever action, thought you might have some insight.

I've been given an old Marlin 1894 in 32-20.  It's great.  According to the serial number, I have reason to believe it was manufactured around 1910 or so.  However, after firing a shot, when I cycle the lever, the empty case won't eject.  I'm careful not to short stroke the lever, but I simply cannot get the empty to fully eject.

Considering the potential value of the rifle, I want to have someone work on it who knows what they're doing.  Someone with experience on old Marlins.  Do you have any recommendations?  Thanks.

[Jim Fleming]

Jed, question?

Is the extractor pulling the empty out of the chamber?

[Jim Fleming]

I just realized how inane my question might sound, so I'll clarify.

Is the extractor working to that extent that it's pulling the empty cases at least partially free of the chamber, but NOT quite clearing the ejection port?

It might be an ejector problem rather than an extraction problem is why I ask.

[Tennessee Jed]

Jim,

You are correct.  The extractor pulls the empty case partially free of the chamber, but it won't clear the ejection port.

[Charlie Foxtrot]

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I asked about your problem on the SASS website.  One of the world's best lever 'smiths responded:

Sounds like a bad breech bolt face. The bolt face is rebated so the rim of the spent cart. is suported on the left side while the extractor holds it as it's moving back toward the ejector. If the area there on the left side is worn away the extractor won't hold it. A simple test is to remove the bolt and hook a spent cart under the extractor to see if the rim will stay in place.

Here is an old 32-20 Marlin I rebuilt for a feller. It had the same problem.

1909 MARLIN 1894: http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o203/NateKJ/IM001528.jpg



His name is Steve Young, and he goes by the SASS Alias of Nate Kiowa Jones.  Website: http://www.stevesgunz.com/

Good guy, one of the best.  I'm savings my pennies to have him build a SS '92 .454 Casull for me. 

[Jim Fleming]

CF has answered your question better than I could've.

Thanks Charlie Foxtrot

[Charlie Foxtrot]

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De nada.

This place is great for exchanging information.  I've got a long way to go before I finally start pulling my weight.   

[Tennessee Jed]

That's great fellers.  Thank you so much.  I've read about Steve and his work before.  I'll do that test and see how it goes.  Will let you all know how it works out.  I'd sure love to get this Marlin back up and running.  It's too grand a rifle not to still be taking out random varmints.

[Devereaux]

CF-

Got a '92 in .357 mag that was slicked by Kiowa Jones before I bought it. Nice work. i like the rifle, but haven't used it much - other than to kill a turkey a year ago when I didn't see any deer and the family whose farm I was hunting on wanted the turkey.

[Charlie Foxtrot]

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Yeah, I've handled Nate's work before.  Anyone that can make a '92 smooth as glass has my undying respect.  

I'm interested in the .454 as you can also run .45 Long Colt, like the 38 Special in .357 rifles.  .45 LC for training/ Cowboy, and the .454 Casull in case I ever need to hunt Cadillac Escalades.  

[Tennessee Jed]

Outstanding.  Are there feeding issues with a lever action, switching between 454 and 45 Colt?  I've had problems in the past with 44 mag rifles and 44 Spl rounds.

[Devereaux]

In my experience not so much so Winchesters, more so Marlins. They seem to be case-length sensitive. But they can be tuned to a particular case length (somehow - not nearly knowledgeable enough to know how Marlins work and what to do to adjust the feed).

[Charlie Foxtrot]

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Nate says: No problemo. He should know. He da man. 

Marlins can be case length sensitive.  We load our 38s long - 1.45" or greater, with TCFP 125gr bullets. Both the '66 and Marlin '94 gobble 'em up. You can get long 38 Special 152gr leads designed to increase the overall length.   

[Devereaux]

My problem is the exact opposite. I like shooting the same round for both sixgun and rifle. I have a pair of Navy .36's that have had the Richards-Mason modification installed (a copy, that is - and what a trial to get them to shoot consistently!), but that calls for .38 Long Colt, which is shorter than the .38 special round. So I have taken to loading a 105 gr bullet in a .38 spl case, but the overall length is shorter than a usual .38 spl. So I made sure that my 66 was tuned to the right length. It loads consistently, as (now finally) do the two Navies.

[Doc Wesson]

Jed,
I have no idea how I missed this post..... I usually just click "Show unread posts since last visit"  but who knows......
Jed.. I really appreciate the kind words.. I am trying to get a phone interview now so I can get the next long time coming episode out...
It appears that the awesome lever lovers here have really got it nailed down... but here is a list nonetheless....

Hunter Restorations
www.hunterrestorations.com

Ben Forkin
email: forkins@ttc-cmc.net

Nonneman Custom Rifles
www.leveractions.com

Mic McPherson
www.levergun.com

Cosby Custom Guns
www.cosbycustomguns.com

Bozeman Trail Arms, Mfg.
www.ycsi.net/users/gunsmith

Steve's Guns
www.stevesgunz.com

Wild West Guns
www.wildwestguns.com

DRC Custom Guns
www.drccustomgunsights.com

Clements Custom Guns
www.clementscustomguns.com

CF is spot on... Steve's is the way...  great work and I have never heard ANYTHING BAD about him.....
I have also used Wild West before with great results...

Dev, you have a brace of Navy .36s?  pics please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CF is spot on... a .454/45 colt  combo... most excellent!!!  Pretty much covers it all.. yes including Escalades!  If you load your own .45 Colts, you can really stoke them up as well... so you can go from Cowboy .45 pressures/speeds all the way past the .44 mag, in the .45 Colt.. then the LEAP to the Casull.. The spread is unlimited in that cranker... Then of course you will have to buy a wheel in the .454 if you don't already have it....  and maybe a Smith 460 if you want a DA wheel that handles the XVR Mag, .454 AND Colts...... So much fun... so little money............

Guys.. seriously... great posts... excellent info from all of you!!!!   

May make this one a sticky.... can't ever have enough good lever smiths info....
 

[Devereaux]

Doc -

I think I had them posted in one of the thread that we had back way back when.

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy141/Devereaux6/DSCN0436.jpg

They are in holsters - when I get home I will post the pic I have of them clear.

They are NOT original Colt Navies. They are, instead a pair of Uberti Navy .36's. I then sent them to R&D Gun Shop, the same guy that made all the six guns for Tom Selleck in Quigley and the TV series that he did. He made (don't know if he's still in business) conversions for black guns to cartridge. I had it done for the Navies, plus had him sleeve the barrels to .357. Then began a journey that took me a couple years. First they wouldn't shoot more than one of two cylinder loads. Had the actions slicked, and the guy, who supposedly knew about old six guns, cut back the barrels. THEN I found that when I shot them they would tend to jam. Turns out there was too much front end space so the cylinders walked, jamming the hand forward. So I took them to my favorite smith, who is great, but very slow. He ended up having some friend of his put a wedge weld on the lower part of the barrels, then grinding them to the correct space for proper front end shake. THIS ended up showing that the headspace was wrong - like only 0.003, when you needed a minimun of 0.006. So I bought a finishing reamer which also cut a rebate into the cylinder to push the case rim forward into the cylinder. He then reamed all the cylinders and now I have minimum clearance, and it seems they work. Haven't yet shot them in a match and seen whether they hold up to 100's of rounds, but maybe over the winter I'll give them a good workout at a range. BUT one of the "problems" with them is that the cylinders are only long enough to regularly hold .38 Long Colt (that terribly anemic round that wouldn't kill Huks in the Phillipines). So I mic'd the distance of the cylinder, then loaded some serious "gamer" rounds based on .38 spl cases for it, to a length that would allow the cylinder to rotate - and there we are! Other issues were that no one makes grips for a Navy (and it's different from either an Army .44 or a Colt SAA) so I ended up having to "adjust" a set that were allegedly for Navies to work. Not a beautiful job, but OK at cursory glance. Didn't want to invest in serous custom grips as that would have raised the costs in the guns to way more than I already had in them, and THAT was way too much!

[Charlie Foxtrot]

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Doc, there's one lever mechanic you need to add:

Jim Bowie of the Cowboys and Indians Store.  http://www.cowboysandindianstore.com/  Jim is the father of the short stroke that many, if not most, of the Cowboy shooters use.  He works mainly on Winchesters and Marlins, but has been known to spread some magic on Rugers and Winchester '97 and clones. 

I'm fortunate to live so close to one of the World's best gunsmiths and finest gentleman.  His store is in Santa Ana, CA.   

[Jim Fleming]

Gents, I *think* this is pertinent to the thread, if not, my apology.

I did see where y'all're talking about loading longer to assist with feeding... I have Saeco mould in .358 diameter, and it casts a 200 grain bullet. Would something like that be of use?

Needless to say I have more than a few of these bullets already cast up. If this is hijacking the thread, perhaps it might be better to move to private messages?

Assistance is requested, Doc? I don't know where or what is appropriate from here.

[Doc Wesson]

Jim.. you are good..
And correct that the mold producing a longer bullet would be beneficial... I have messed around w/ .44 levers that way between mags and specials!!

[Jim Fleming]

Thanks,  Doc.

Something I did forget to mention earlier, is the OAL of my 200 grain TC Saeco bullets is 7/8ths (.875) of an inch. Compared to a relatively normal 158 SWC at 21/32nds (.656) in length.

Quite a bit more longitudinal bearing surface to say the least!

edited in:

The bearing surface on the Saeco Bullet is 21/32nds (.656") of an inch, alone. That's equivalent to the entire OAL of the SWC!

The SWC bearing surface is 7/16ths (.437") of an inch, just about 1/2 of the OAL of the Saeco Bullets.

I hope this helps, and if the bullets themselves can be of use...?