Episode 143 - MAG 40 and IDPA World Shoot, by Jon Hodoway

[Bob Mayne]

OK, Episode 143 has been posted and Jon Hodoway announces his MAG 40 class.  Link to register is here, http://nighthawkcustomtraining.com/mag40.html

Let's use this thread to discuss the show, ask questions.  Jon and I will be checking this thread often.  Enjoy the show.

[Chuck Boylan]

Great podcast! I'm glad to hear the MAG 40 class has been scheduled. Can you give a list of motels that you would suggest in the area?

[EmptyMags]

I realllllly want to get in a MAG class. I can't afford to even GET to AR right now though.  Maybe next time. lol

[Bob Mayne]

Great podcast! I'm glad to hear the MAG 40 class has been scheduled. Can you give a list of motels that you would suggest in the area?

Only hotels that are customers of mine!  Just kidding. Good question. Jon since you live in the area can you make some suggestions?

[hodman]

Great podcast! I'm glad to hear the MAG 40 class has been scheduled. Can you give a list of motels that you would suggest in the area?

Working on a match hotel but any hotel in Bentonville will be fine
All of the are about 15 min from the range

[Colin]

I just mailed my form this morning.

[Colin]

Hampton inn, has rates at around 100 bucks per night, i bet if you tell them your working with Walmart they may give a better rate.

[Bob Mayne]

I just mailed my form this morning.

Looking forward to seeing you there!

[Trucker]

OK, Episode 143 has been posted and Jon Hodoway announces his MAG 40 class.  Link to register is here, http://nighthawkcustomtraining.com/mag40.html

Let's use this thread to discuss the show, ask questions.  Jon and I will be checking this thread often.  Enjoy the show.

See you there! I'm looking forward to meeting you, Bob.


The Un-Named Trucker
roadgunnerpodcast.com
roadgunner@ymail.com

[Bob Mayne]

Same to you.  Remember, the listeners get to pick the food we are going to eat at Hodoway's house!  Please email me, if you listen to the HGWS and let me know that you're attending.  I need to give Jon a list. 

We also get to go through his gun safe, I'm really looking forward to that.

Trucker, I'm putting you on the list.  I know you're a listener. 

Who else is joining us?

[Bob Mayne]

I just mailed my form this morning.

Colin, do I need to put you on the HGWS list of attendees? (for dinner at Hodoway's house.)  PM me your name and email address so we can keep a record.  Thanks.

[hodman]

We dont want the trucker picking the menu it will be PUPPY!

[hodman]

I just mailed my form this morning.

Got it today!
Thanks
Jon

[luvsigs2]

Guys, I would have to sell my right arm to go.  My son needs $7,000 of braces in January and it's taking first priority.  I want to eventually make a Mag40 class and this seems to be the closest.  The invitation from Jon to peruse his gun safe is ALMOST irresistable!  Some day, I hope to win the lottery!

[Bob Mayne]

Here's a listener response posted on the Handgun World website www.handgunworld.com about this podcast.



Fred Minlos
dvc4you@yahoo.com
67.98.237.226


Submitted on 2011/10/11 at 1:07 pm

I have never heard such a bunch of innacuracies as the ones that John dropped in this podacast, and that is why I am putting my name on this one.
 
Where do I start?
 
A) IDPA creation, go and ask around to those guys that were shhoting IPSC at the time, Wilson created a new game because he was not selling any guns to the IPSC guys because he was not producing a hi-cap. Also it would be nice to know why 10mm does not compete in CDP?
 
B) Equipment race, yes it was there when everybody went to hi cap, but I compete in limited with the same gun that I bought 10 years ago I am competitive with it, it just my skills and lack of practice that suck. When he says that you had to buy a gun every six months, I call BS on that one.
 
B)six grand to be competitive in IPSC, BS. Go to the Brian Enos forum and see what the guns a selling for. Compare apple to apples since IDPA does not have an open division, you can have a top of the line limited pistol custom made for 4000 or buy of the shelf for 2000. How much do you think a nighthawk custom or wilson go for?
 
C) Nobody shoots 8 and reloads, unless you shoot production of SS. Courses of fire are 32 round max, my gun holds 21 so we have to basically plan 1 reload.
 
John really dissapointed me on this one, the amount of BS that I heard makes me wonder about all the rest of the stuff he said on other episodes. From now I am skipping over him, there other good podcasts out there.
 
 

[Bob Mayne]

And Jon's response, re-posted with his permission,



Fred well if you did like the podcasts at least you didn’t go to sleep. First of all: thank you for taking the time to take issue with things that I’ve said I respect your vehement disagreement with my remarks.
 Out of respect for your comments I will attempt to address each one of them individually in doing so I hope that we can open a dialogue even if we disagree.
 A. Fred although I would not count Bill Wilson is one of my close personal friends I do know the man and I would say that I have the highest regard for him as a world-class competitor. I have shot against Bill and lost to him I might add and I will not attempt to put words in his mouth for what his motivation was at the time for creating IDPA. However I will rely on my own knowledge and what others have publicly stated as to why they helped Bill create the sport of IDPA. I would refer you to the founding members of IDPA Bill Wilson, John Sayle, Ken Hackathorn, Dick Thomas, Walt Rauch and Larry Vickers I think that each of these men wanted to return to the original roots that I PSC had originally been founded for.
 Cooper was the Founding President and Honorary Lifetime Chairman of the International Practical Shooting Confederation. However, he was critical of the way the IPSC departed from the original focus on practical weapons toward what he called rooney guns — highly-modified pistols which were not appropriate for practical daily service, and which were tuned to fire only ammunition with small propellant charges.
 In just as a quick point of fact Bill Wilson was famous for customizing guns all of his early work was built on other manufacturers frames. Bill also did custom work and still does on double stack 1911 style guns. The very first part that Bill manufactured hundred percent and under his own name was a magazine and even that was shared credit.
 With tongue-in-cheek I would answer your question about 10mm but it would just be BS.
 B.Fred I apologize if didn’t make myself clear but 10 years ago IDPA was five years old I was actually referring closer to 20 – 25 years when the equipment race was in full swing. I don’t think that there’s been the equipment race in the last 10 or 15 years on the contrary when you look at where the growth in I PSC has occurred the growth has been in the production class. The open class has actually shrunk as I understand however feel free to fact check me here.
 
B (B). Again when I laid the number on the table of six grand I was referring to 1980 cost and what the value of those dollars would be equivalent to today. So, for instance if you were to look at the value of a house or an automobile in 1980 what would the equivalent house or automobile cost you in 2012. As a point of fact I would submit to you that the actual price of guns adjusted for inflation have come down dramatically since that time frame. I in fact agree with you about the cost of an open gun today one of the main reasons that the cost of guns has come down is the engineering has been paid for and production methods have greatly improved efficiency.
 C. Fred nobody is a big word here my mother taught that I should not use absolutes. I would suggest that most shooters use movement time to reload when shooting IPSC. However your results may vary I would be happy to suggest several YouTube videos if you have trouble finding them we can observe this phenomenon that I’m discussing.
 In conclusion I would like to apologize for any disappointment I may have caused and if you will provide me with a mailing address I will be happy to refund you all the money you spent listening to the podcast. I will also will intern provide you with a self-addressed stamped box you may return the entire BS I gave you for full credit towards another pod casters BS of the same or equal quantity.
 Fred I appreciate you signing your name to this and allowing me to respond to you I hope you realize that several of the things I said were meant in fun and I hope you received them in the spirit of one shooter to another as you cannot hear my voice or see my face I hope to see you on the range one day.
 Sincerely
 Jon Hodoway
 NRA 071279677
 IDPA A06956
 USPSA TY-55771

[hodman]

I found this from Ken Hackathorn about the founding of IDPA he talks about the risk Bill Wilson was taking because he was making a lot of money from USPSA

Hackathorn: Well, by the late ‘80s, most of us had seen USPSA (United States Practical Shooting Association), that's IPSC in the United States, go off on an extreme tangent that had very little to do with reality, in my opinion. I was fed up with it and I disassociated myself from it. Even Bill Wilson, whose company has made a lot of money based upon the 1911 and competition shooting, finally said, “This is ridiculous. I’ll start my own organization,” and he called me, along with some other people, and said, “We’re going to get [competitive shooting] back on course. Are you with me?”
 
Bill, myself, Dick Thomas, Walt Rauch, John Sayle and Larry Vickers were the original founding board members of the International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA). We wanted to get back to where you used real guns, the guns you carry for self defense. The end result is that IDPA today, from a competition standpoint, is probably the most relevant of all the self-defense type pistol shooting sports, I think.
 

[Trucker]

We dont want the trucker picking the menu it will be PUPPY!

Yeah, but barbecued puppy which makes it okay.


The Un-Named Trucker
roadgunnerpodcast.com
roadgunner@ymail.com

[SteveZ]

I thought I'd post a quick comment on a couple of points Fred made....

B)six grand to be competitive in IPSC, BS. Go to the Brian Enos forum and see what the guns a selling for. Compare apple to apples since IDPA does not have an open division, you can have a top of the line limited pistol custom made for 4000 or buy of the shelf for 2000. How much do you think a nighthawk custom or wilson go for?

Agreed.  This comment that "IPSC will cost you a couple grand to get into" is thrown about all the time as a knock on IPSC.  You can be competitive in USPSA (the US region of IPSC which is a world wide body) with a Glock and a handful of magazines (for production, I'd go with 5)....or perhaps even your current carry gun.  The entry costs of USPSA are no different than IDPA (except for a couple more mags).  

It really frustrates me when I hear this myth along with the equipment race myth about IPSC because, if people don't know any better, they believe it.  So please, lets stop propogating this myth, it simply isn't true.

C) Nobody shoots 8 and reloads, unless you shoot production of SS. Courses of fire are 32 round max, my gun holds 21 so we have to basically plan 1 reload.

There is a rule in IPSC and USPSA that basically says "no more than 8 rounds from a single position or view"  it is primarily a course design rule and says that you can't REQUIRE that more than 8 rounds be fired from a single position or view (like a port or around the edge of a wall). If you had a shooting position with 5 targets (10 rounds) and none of those targets could be engaged anywere else except from the position or view, it would be an illegal COF (btw, this is probably one of the most violated course design rules at the club level because 1) course designers don't know the rules or the match officials didn't check the COF out before hand or 2) they'll dismiss it as "simply a club match"...which doesn't fly and isn't allowed. Club matches have to play by the rule book. 

If you have a shooting position where you can see 6 targets (12 rounds) from one side and 2 of those targets (4 rounds) are also visible from some other location or view (along with some more targets), then its perfectly legal. The difference here is that the shooter isn't forced into shooting more than 8 rounds from a single position/view...its their option.

This is one of the primary challenges of IPSC Courses Of Fire....let the shooter figure out the BEST way to try and execute the stage and don't dictate to them HOW they will shoot the stage.  There is no rule that says you have to do a reload between target arrays in IPSC, its up to the competitor to decide when and where they're going to reload.

Bob saw a lot of "course diversity" at the Double Tap match where there were MANY different options as to when and where targets should or could be shot.

[Colin]

I just mailed my form this morning.

Got it today!
Thanks
Jon

Sweet!