Shotgun versus Taurus Judge for Home Defense

[luvsigs2]

Would appreciate everyone's thoughts on what you think of the Taurus Judge as a home defense alternative to a shotgun.  Now I KNOW that nothing beats a 12 gauge, however, you can get .410 buckshot in the Judge and at reasonable distances, the pattern holds good.  Here are some of my thoughts on the advantages of the Judge:

1.  The judge would be a great deal easier to stash and to maneuver.
2.  You could still use buckshot loads and alternate with .45s
3.  You could put a laser on it.
4.  It would provide a lot less damage to your home, or concerns of too much over penetration.
5.  Makes a great car gun too.
6.  Everyone in the house can shoot it, revolvers are point, pull and shoot.

Would love to hear your thoughts.  We have had a rash of breakin's and even a murder in our neighborhood, so I am taking my home defense more seriously.  I currently use my LC0 with laserlyte laser loaded with CorBon DPX's by my bed side. 

Another tip, if you are also looking into home defense make sure to check out Bob's other podcast for some great tips on security systems.

[Charlie Foxtrot]

  
I'd point to the derision that the elite gun media have heaped upon the Judge; including our own Massad Ayoob and Gail Pepin.  I believe Gail coined the term "Bagel Shooter".

One of their favorite firearms for most of the situations you described: a youth model 20 gauge semi-auto gas operated shotgun.  

[gitt1]

No disrespect but are you serious? The smaller the gun the harder it is to shoot, so it is really not a pool weapon. The Judge is an arms length weapon so no laser needed but if the mission is home defense why not go bigger? Maneuvering in a house is for the police, you should stay with the people you must protect.

Proarms crew recommended a small 20 gauge auto shotgun some time back for good defense that most people including women & teenagers could handle. If it's just for an adult nothing is as intimidating as a short side by side 12 gauge with a backup sidearm.

Judge would be a good car gun if it's legal where you are (referring to car carry). In most other respects it is in my opinion a novelty gun. Nothing wrong with owning a novelty gun, the purpose is just understood to be fun as it is not the best choice in other applications.

If you like a Judge I hope you are able to shoot one somewhere before buying. It may be a great fun gun but if it hurts to shoot you will learn to flinch while shooting and that's the last thing you need to add to a self-defence scenario.

Larry

[NS2]

Neither Shotgun nor pistol when given a complete list of choices.

I'd suggest you get a reliable AR platform in SBR if possible, a good sling, a quality flashlight with mount and a high quality red dot optic.  Load it with Hornady 55gr TAP ammunition and use a magazine coupler.

The cartridge is far superior to any handgun cartridge you would want to shoot.  The longer gun allows you to maintain better control of the weapon.  The capacity of a coupled mag AR is 58.  The sound you make cycling the charging handle or just sending the carrier forward from open is enough to let them know you're serious.  The sling allows you to go hands free instantly for wrangling family members or H2H situations.  It also allows you to have better retention during the F2F struggle which may ensue.  The flashlight mounted to the weapon enables you to work the rooms and the corners much more easily and will be taken into evidence with the weapon afterwards leaving no doubt that you had properly identified your target(s).  The red dot optic will help you get on target much faster and with both eyes open.  The ammunition I suggested has been tested and shown to break up more quickly in building materials than handgun rounds.

Nothing, not birdshot, not the .45acp, not even rifle rounds are a guarantee.  You still need to have effective shot placement.  The AR platform enables you, or your family members, to easily put effective rounds on target quickly.  It has very limited recoil, is easy to learn and is fun to shoot.

That being said...

Go with the SA 20ga shotgun.  I'd suggest you use high quality 00 buck or slugs for SD though.  Make sure it has a sling and a light.  Take a class or two and learn how to run and keep it fed.  A shotgun is only as useful as the loads used and the person feeding it.  It is not the simple device that everyone claims it to be.  Absent professional training, you will fight with what is in the gun and that will be all.  You will need help patterning your shotgun, learning your load transition distances, training to make transition and sustain loads, and how to clear malfunctions at the bare minimum.  Yes...you need that type of training with the AR or pistol platforms as well.   

Good Luck,

[NS2]

OBTW:  THANK YOU for bringing this up.  It's a real gun discussion...how cool is this!!!  

[Dave.45]

The other reason for going with a shotgun is that it is still considered "normal" as a self defense gun. The AR is fantastic (there are good reasons that it gets used by those tasked with clearing houses for a living... as opposed to the Tarus Judge!), but many a lawyer will jump at the "paramilitary wanna-be that just couldn't wait to kill some poor unsuspecting teen who was really trying to get his life turned around" prosicution possibilities that an AR represents... and there is a good chance that the jury will be at least partially swayed by the anti-gun media barrage that they have been subjected to over the years.

But, as NS2 said, the most important thing in any system is a combination of good training, good skills, and the confidence to make the right decisions when bad things begin to happen.

[Bob Mayne]

Neither Shotgun nor pistol when given a complete list of choices.

I'd suggest you get a reliable AR platform in SBR if possible, a good sling, a quality flashlight with mount and a high quality red dot optic.  Load it with Hornady 55gr TAP ammunition and use a magazine coupler.

The cartridge is far superior to any handgun cartridge you would want to shoot.  The longer gun allows you to maintain better control of the weapon.  The capacity of a coupled mag AR is 58.  The sound you make cycling the charging handle or just sending the carrier forward from open is enough to let them know you're serious.  The sling allows you to go hands free instantly for wrangling family members or H2H situations.  It also allows you to have better retention during the F2F struggle which may ensue.  The flashlight mounted to the weapon enables you to work the rooms and the corners much more easily and will be taken into evidence with the weapon afterwards leaving no doubt that you had properly identified your target(s).  The red dot optic will help you get on target much faster and with both eyes open.  The ammunition I suggested has been tested and shown to break up more quickly in building materials than handgun rounds.

Nothing, not birdshot, not the .45acp, not even rifle rounds are a guarantee.  You still need to have effective shot placement.  The AR platform enables you, or your family members, to easily put effective rounds on target quickly.  It has very limited recoil, is easy to learn and is fun to shoot.

That being said...

Go with the SA 20ga shotgun.  I'd suggest you use high quality 00 buck or slugs for SD though.  Make sure it has a sling and a light.  Take a class or two and learn how to run and keep it fed.  A shotgun is only as useful as the loads used and the person feeding it.  It is not the simple device that everyone claims it to be.  Absent professional training, you will fight with what is in the gun and that will be all.  You will need help patterning your shotgun, learning your load transition distances, training to make transition and sustain loads, and how to clear malfunctions at the bare minimum.  Yes...you need that type of training with the AR or pistol platforms as well.   

Good Luck,

What he said...



However, if you can't afford an AR platform, then in my opinion, use a 20 gauge shotgun if you have to have a long gun.  I'm a fan of a good pistol for home defense.  A Glock 34 (or similar) with a good rail mounted light.  However, an 870 express (available in 20 gauge) or a Mossberg 500 (also available in 20 gauge) are excellent choices if you're on a budget and want a long gun. 

Not the Judge.

[RickB]

I can't see choosing the Judge for any purpose.  If I need a revolver, I don't need it chambered in .410; and if I need a shotgun, I, well, don't need it to be in the form of a revolver!

[Lawrence]

I can't see choosing the Judge for any purpose.  If I need a revolver, I don't need it chambered in .410; and if I need a shotgun, I, well, don't need it to be in the form of a revolver!

That make sense. Some called " innovative ideas" are just hard to place in context. If I need the power that comes from a shotgun, why in the world I would use so short barrel as in a revolver platform?

[haskovez]

Vuurwapen just did a good post on this:

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2012/03/27/the-taurus-judge-is-just-not-very-good/

[otis]

Vuurwapen just did a good post on this:

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2012/03/27/the-taurus-judge-is-just-not-very-good/

+1 to the Vuurwapenblog report!

[Lawrence]

Nice report.
I don't like the Judge as a concept, but I can't say anything about the gun itself, because I don't own one. But to be fair with Taurus I must say that the guns I've owned and currently own are very good. I shot my first Taurus as a teenager in Brazil. We had Taurus, S&W and Rossi in the house. From 32's, 38's and 357's we had covered. My back up was a Taurus 85S. The Customer service here in in America is horrible. It's a deal breaker. I never had to wait more than 5 days for a part or accessory to come by mail in Brazil. Here I had to wait 11 Months for a recoil spring for my Taurus 27/7 Pro, a pretty good  gun by the way. That's one of the the best range and Instructional gun in my opinion. I put more than 4000 rds through it and the only thing I needed was a new recoil spring (now I got 3 of them). Back to The Judge I wouldn't buy it, but I have to admit that it's got some personality to the point that it has kicked S&W to a response. The customer service problem is real but the bashing on the company as a whole is pretty much parroting started long time ago. Some revolvers company here are years behind Taurus when it comes to technology. Taurus is a Forge company, making everything in the house, not getting screws from China. From the plate to the barrel made in the house. On the other hand quality issues would always happen when you have so many models released every year. I think Taurus should eliminate some of them and concentrate on a specific line for the intended market and work on the CS issues.

[Bob Mayne]

That blog post is very well done.  I agree with it also.  I still think people would generally be better served with a good pistol for home defense (if looking for an alternative to a shotgun.)  A good pistol, with good training and a flashlight or weapon mounted light is a pretty good set up.  Also, same goes for in your car defense. 

In fact, my shotgun is for a very specific purpose, property defense.  My property is a suburban lot, so no distance is longer than 25 yards.  With Federal Flite Control 00 buckshot out of my 870, it will do the job.  Inside my home, I'll grab my Glock 34 with a rail mounted light.

[haskovez]

Nice report.
I don't like the Judge as a concept, but I can't say anything about the gun itself, because I don't own one. But to be fair with Taurus I must say that the guns I've owned and currently own are very good. I shot my first Taurus as a teenager in Brazil. We had Taurus, S&W and Rossi in the house. From 32's, 38's and 357's we had covered. My back up was a Taurus 85S. The Customer service here in in America is horrible. It's a deal breaker. I never had to wait more than 5 days for a part or accessory to come by mail in Brazil. Here I had to wait 11 Months for a recoil spring for my Taurus 27/7 Pro, a pretty good  gun by the way. That's one of the the best range and Instructional gun in my opinion. I put more than 4000 rds through it and the only thing I needed was a new recoil spring (now I got 3 of them). Back to The Judge I wouldn't buy it, but I have to admit that it's got some personality to the point that it has kicked S&W to a response. The customer service problem is real but the bashing on the company as a whole is pretty much parroting started long time ago. Some revolvers company here are years behind Taurus when it comes to technology. Taurus is a Forge company, making everything in the house, not getting screws from China. From the plate to the barrel made in the house. On the other hand quality issues would always happen when you have so many models released every year. I think Taurus should eliminate some of them and concentrate on a specific line for the intended market and work on the CS issues.

I think the thing with the judge it is just great marketing and you have to hand it to the company for that.  They certainly have done well with the product I think the point is more that the product is just too many compromises to be practical.  That being said I have never shot the judge, I do know one person who owns one, and I was at the gun range a couple of weeks ago and a guy comes in with his judge and was talking to the guy behind the counter about the gun for self defense.  He said another gun store really recommended the gun as a defensive gun, and the guy at my range tried to let him down easy when he said it isn't the ideal and he would probably be better off with a Glock for home defense.  So clearly with the name and the idea it works for some dealers to push them.

[Bob Mayne]

It is a marketing success on the part of Taurus.  Similar to the "Zombie" ammo that's out there.  Just stick with tried and true weapons and ammo and you'll be OK.  Crossover guns, usually aren't what the manufacturer says.  Either get a shotgun or a pistol.

I like the part of the Vuurwapen blog that says the Judge is usually an attempt that people make to compensate for lack of shooting skills.  Seems like a "spray and pray" weapon. 

[Uninformed Opinion]

I did get to shoot a judge once. And I will say, while I would never consider it for a SD gun, it's pretty damn fun to shoot, and as someone that doesn't like the revolver style grip, pretty comfortable in the hand. Strictly a fun gun as far as I am concerned though.

[Kevin]

Wait, there's Zombie ammo out there? Dang, why didn't ya'll let a brother know?
BRB, going to Walmart...

[Lawrence]

You can get the Zombie ammo on Midway Usa website. Last time Ichecked Wally World here in NC they said they don't carry those. But let me tell the zombie ammo is just a label. Specs are from a regular shotgun ammo.

[Kevin]

Well that's it then! No more ordering from Midway if they're selling plain old shotgun shells re-labeled as Zombie Ammo... the nerve of some people. Just suppose I buy some of that crap, load it in my Custom Zombie Apocalypse 12 Gauge Judge by Taurus (tm), have a horde of zombies overrun my house, implement my Mas Ayube approved Zombie Home Defense Plan (that I got a really good deal on, on Ebay), and the freaking zombies just keep coming because I'm shooting plain old freaking shotgun ammo!!! Man, Ima sue the pants off of Midway if my family gets eaten by zombies... unless it's Rob Zombie, and that would be kind of cool...

-Kevin, not as prepared as he thought he was...

[jeff4423]

i don't agree with this:

"I'd suggest you get a reliable AR platform in SBR if possible, a good sling, a quality flashlight with mount and a high quality red dot optic.  Load it with Hornady 55gr TAP ammunition and use a magazine coupler."
ering arou
Try shooting your AR in your house you will be deaf for days. Try holding it with one hand and maneuvering around or maneuvering around family members. I would go shotgun everytime!!!

12g was old first choice be now i would consider a light weight 20 pump.