Beating The Reaper, Volume 1

[Dr John Meade]

In 2010, I introduced a radically new class into the Suarez International curriculum: Trauma Medicine for the CCW Operator (TMCO). This class was designed to be a gunfighting class, not just a classroom first aid class like so many others teach. My idea was to teach how to respond to the potentially lethal encounter and be able to not only win the gunfight, but also avoid dying from wounds received during the fight. The class teaches both halves of the situation, the gunfight and the medical care, in an integrated fashion.

As obvious to me as it was that we needed the TMCO class, it was also obvious that we needed a book to accompany the class.

Read more HERE.

And stay tuned to Bob's podcast, as he will be interviewing me about these things soon.   

[Bob Mayne]

We did the interview, it will be available in Feb. 20th!  It's a good one!

[Dr John Meade]

We did the interview, it will be available in Feb. 20th!  It's a good one!

I really appreciate the opportunity to spread the word on an area that is so vitally important. To win the gunfight, then bleed to death from a gunshot you got in the exchange,  is NOT a win. I love teaching people how to shoot, and also how to save themselves and their loved ones from trauma.


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[Dr John Meade]

I am told the first printing sold out, so they had to print more! I hope this batch gets sold out, too, especially after the podcast goes live next week. 

[Bob Mayne]

The listeners will really enjoy this next podcast.  We discussed things like tourniquets and what to do if you happen to get shot.  I honestly have never given this much thought until we did this interview. So much focus is placed on tactics and shooting skills and very little on what to do if you or a loved one is injured.

John and I also talked a little bit about guns and fighting tactics and gear, but I'm confident you'll find this show enlightening.

[Kimerazor]

Great info!  Makes sense to carry a tourniquet on your person everywhere.  Same reason you carry a gun, when seconds count, help is only minutes away.  Ordering several today, training soon.  I carry my IFAK in my truck.  This will be a great addition.

Thanks guys!

[Bob Mayne]

John, I've received a few emails from listeners that have already ordered your book. 

[Dr John Meade]

John, I've received a few emails from listeners that have already ordered your book. 

That is awesome. Here is a portion of an email I got today.

John,

I just got the opportunity to listen to your podcast. Thank you for the enlightening content.

My first and foremost opinion of the segment is that it was an excellent introduction to an issue most people have never thought of. You made it abundantly clear that the gun carrying population are not just woefully unprepared to deal with a traumatic injury but are simply ignorant of the possibility that a gunfight can results in the "good guys" getting hit. I will admit that I had not given it much thought.

I spend quite a bit of time talking to people about guns, gun fighting, disaster preparedness, and all kinds of similar things. I am by no means an expert but know a little about it all, even if it's knowing that I am unprepared for a critical incident that would require first aid. I can tell you, probably quite obviously, that no one ever talks about what you espouse. No one.

So I think that you did an excellent job on hammering the point home that carrying a gun doesn't mean your will win an armed confrontation. Training to shoot, learning tactics, and being a badass gun slinger isn't all you need. I actually thought that the kind of skill set you teach should be required for LEOs. You were asked the questions whether you have had cops take your course and you answered they were just a part of the wide variety of people who have participated. I thought it was good to highlight that anyone from a housewife to a cop can benefit. I couldn't help but think back to the North Hollywood bank shootout and seeing those LAPD cops who had been hit hunkered down behind cars, bleeding, I felt that could happen again and police need to be trained if not just to survive but to possibly stay in the fight. After all, if the cops can't stay in the fight then no one will be safe.

You really made me want to go out and buy some tourniquets. I would have otherwise probably relied on some 550 cord or a 5.11 belt when I should have the proper tools. Of all the cops I know, I have only met one who has a tourniquet on his active shoot rig.

I liked how you presented the need for the course for everyday life. It kind of takes some of the scare out of it for those who might be intimidated by the course or even the reality of getting shot during an armed confrontation. Those people can think about the course in terms of everyday occurrences rather than fighting for their lives.

I can't say anything bad about the interview. The book sounds great and is a fantastic way for people to get some knowledge if they can't make it out to one of your classes.

I've written more than too much for you to have to read. Thanks again for the opportunity to listen and learn.

Bob, again I thank you for giving me the chance to share such important information with people like this!

[ppp]

Bob, thank you for your show.  Thanks also for your help getting me in the forum.  I thought this episode was tremendous.  I really had never given much thought to surviving an altercation with a gun and then needing first aid or giving someone else first aid. 

I believe your show is as practical as they come for the concealed carrier. 

Thanks again, Pistol Packin' Preacher

[Sniah]

I think I may order the book, but the $10 flat rate shipping is kind of steep for this by itself. I'm trying to decide if there is anything else I would like to order at the same time.. anyone have a favorite dvd or book they would highly recommend? I know that is a rather broad question, but I'm just generally looking for ideas..

[Dr John Meade]

I think I may order the book, but the $10 flat rate shipping is kind of steep for this by itself. I'm trying to decide if there is anything else I would like to order at the same time.. anyone have a favorite dvd or book they would highly recommend? I know that is a rather broad question, but I'm just generally looking for ideas..

You can also consider all sorts of various gun parts, magazines, holsters, and such.


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[haskovez]

I listened to most of this podcast today.  Not to be harsh but from my perspective this just came across as a commercial for a Suarez class and promoting a book.  I can see where there would be value in medical skills for a concealed carrier in the awful event that they got into a gun fight, but I personally feel you would probably be better off spending $100 and taking an EMT course at a local community college.  The likelihood of a typical civilian getting into a gun fight in their life is so low, then factor in a specialized class just for medicine on that vs learning a lot of general first response skills in an EMT program that would be more likely to serve you in general throughout your life with what you are likely to see, but still give you the basics to do a first response.  I appreciate what Dr John is trying to do here and in his position on a swat team you probably need a much more specialized approach, but for me that typical CHL holder I am not seeing a lot of value in the class vs a more generalized approach, and from a podcast listener perspective the show just felt like a big commercial so I turned it off before I finished it.

[haskovez]

Oops I should have posted this in the Episode 163 thread, I got a little mixed up with the 2 threads having almost the same title.

[Dr John Meade]

I listened to most of this podcast today.  Not to be harsh but from my perspective this just came across as a commercial for a Suarez class and promoting a book.

Thanks for listening, and I appreciate the feedback. Was it a commercial for the stuff I teach and write? Sure, of course it is. Don't you think that every author who releases a book and then goes on a show is essentially doing a commercial for his book? I was asked to come discuss what I do, know and teach. The key is that the stuff I can teach you could save your life.

I can see where there would be value in medical skills for a concealed carrier in the awful event that they got into a gun fight, but I personally feel you would probably be better off spending $100 and taking an EMT course at a local community college.

I also run an EMT and paramedic training program at a local community college, so I am well aware of the training EMT's get. If you think the training in an EMT program is a substitute for the TMCO class, you are completely missing the point of the TMCO class! Perhaps, since you didn't listen to the whole podcast, you missed the fact that the TMCO class is NOT just a first aid class. It is a gunfighting class that teaches you how to incorporate rapid trauma-oriented first aid in with shooting, tactical movement, and tactical thinking. I can assure you that EMT students are not taught any of that.

The likelihood of a typical civilian getting into a gun fight in their life is so low, then factor in a specialized class just for medicine on that vs learning a lot of general first response skills in an EMT program that would be more likely to serve you in general throughout your life with what you are likely to see, but still give you the basics to do a first response.

You are, of course, correct that an EMT training program will teach you much more about how to respond to heart attacks, hypoglycemia, and allergic reactions. It will NOT teach you how to respond to a mugger shooting at you and your wife! See above reply for more on this.

  I appreciate what Dr John is trying to do here and in his position on a swat team you probably need a much more specialized approach, but for me that typical CHL holder I am not seeing a lot of value in the class vs a more generalized approach, and from a podcast listener perspective the show just felt like a big commercial so I turned it off before I finished it.

If you are happy with your lack of knowledge, that's fine. Honestly, I think you are suffering from a "head in the sand" attitude. I hope you never have occasion to prove me right.

[BikerRN]

Not having taken the course, or listened to the podcast yet, I can only surmise that a basic EMT course would be more useful in day to day life but the course referred to in the podcast would serve best in the event that one is indeed in a lethal encounter and injured.

Injuries are quite common from what I've seen and read. If you get in a knife fight you will be cut. The "winner" goes to the hospital while the loser goes to the morgue. In a gunfight people focus on the object of danger, the gun. That will tend to draw their shots to the gun. Ask yourself, if you are shooting at someone and his or her eyes are drawn to your gun, where do their bullets go? Do the the hands not tend to follow the eyes, even if only subconciously?

This course, or one similar, could be thought of like the personal protection firearm. It's something that we don't need in day to day life until we do and then nothing else will suffice.

[Bob Mayne]

Commercial?  I guess one could take the attitude that every podcast I put out is a commercial.  After all, I'm selling ME.  I'm selling my ideas and views and opinions.  And there's nothing of value in any of the podcasts I do.  Nothing educational or informative.  Just some Yankee salesman selling his ideas about guns, concealed carry, shooting sports and defensive handguns. 

OK...sarcasm aside, I learned a lot from doing this interview.  For example, I was always of the opinion that tourniquets should never be used because you'll likely lose your limb and I learned otherwise.  I actually didn't know there were pocket sized tourniquets that one could carry.  I actually never heard the opinion of any ER physician on the 9mm, vs. .40cal, vs. 45acp wound size debate. 

In case you didn't know, I don't run commercials on my show, except for the GRRN.  I don't have sponsors that mandate that I run commercials because they are paying for airtime.  Quite frankly, I think that's a huge benefit to the listener.  I'm irritated by podcasts that run commercials every 10 minutes from a sponsor trying to sell something.  I spend only 3-4 minutes out of a 60 minute show talking about my Shooter's Club Podcast.  So when I bring on a guest, who has a book, sure he's going to talk about it, but I also think Dr. Meade gave us some pretty good information to consider, for the 1 hour of time he spent. 

So to turn off the podcast without listening to the entire show, is to miss some valuble info.  Then, to criticize the show when you haven't listened to the whole thing, is like people who critique a gun and have barely shot one, nor even owned one. 

I think it's quite unrealistic to think that a profesional who's written a book and teaches a course, could be interviewed for an hour and not discuss the benefits of what he offers.

I have 2 more interviews coming up for Episode 164 and 165.  They're excellent, but I can tell you that both teach classes and have a lot of excellent experience. One is with SI and one is not.  So I'll warn everyone ahead of time....they might talk about the classes they teach or the blogs they write, or their ideas and techniques that they sell.   But 90% of what they do on the podcast, is share some pretty cool information about CCW, guns, defensive skills and ammo.  So if that turns you off, you may want to skip the next 2 episodes.

[haskovez]

Well I am not here to start a fight I have listened to all your shows since the first one Bob and you have always mentioned that you want constructive criticism and in my opinion this wasn't as good as the normal show you put out.  But what I mean by a commercial is there are interviews done on podcasts where someone is promoting a book or something else, but I don't feel like I am receiving a sales pitch, and there are interviews that to me feel like a long sales pitch.  To me this felt like the latter, I hope others got more out of it than I did.

I think Biker's comment maybe more hits the point I was getting at, it is sort of like if you listen to the survival podcast one of the main philosophies that Jack pushes is to prepare for the most common disaster first.  For most people that would be job loss, so you build up emergency savings and a pantry so that if you lose your job you have food to fall back on and money to pay your bills.  I see the EMT thing as the same way, since I am not Law Enforcement, or Military the likelihood of me facing combat or combat trauma is much lower than as Dr John pointed out seeing a heart attack or allergic reaction.  So from a preparedness standpoint I would be better off learning EMT skills first before moving up to something like this which I feel would have less practical use in my day to day life.

The beauty of living in a free society is that other people will decide that this is something they need and they can all vote with their dollar.  So I wasn't trying to be disrespectful and I don't appreciate the "head in the sand" comment, I was just weighing a cost benefit approach for what I am more likely to need in my life.  It is ok if we agree to disagree on it, I just wanted to throw some food for thought out there.

[Dr John Meade]

I hope others got more out of it than I did.

I do, too.  

I think Biker's comment maybe more hits the point I was getting at, it is sort of like if you listen to the survival podcast one of the main philosophies that Jack pushes is to prepare for the most common disaster first. ..... before moving up to something like this which I feel would have less practical use in my day to day life.

I agree with you 100%, that all of us make preparations and plans, based on our own perceptions of need. We prioritize our efforts to those things we think are either most likely, or most important. Some people work really hard to prepare for am EMP event, while others view that prep as wasted time & money. Surely you can't blame me for trying to educate those who will listen when I am trying to educate them about something I think is important.

And, if someone is so sure he won't ever face another in an armed encounter, why does he carry a gun?

The beauty of living in a free society is that other people will decide that this is something they need and they can all vote with their dollar.  So I wasn't trying to be disrespectful and I don't appreciate the "head in the sand" comment, I was just weighing a cost benefit approach for what I am more likely to need in my life.  It is ok if we agree to disagree on it, I just wanted to throw some food for thought out there.

Absolutely, we can agree to disagree. There is plenty of room under the "big tent" for those with different perspectives. I am open to learning from all of you, and hope I get the same courtesy.

Thanks!

[haskovez]

And, if someone is so sure he won't ever face another in an armed encounter, why does he carry a gun?

Given that 98% of Defensive Gun Uses are resolved without a shot ever being fired, we are still almost 2 orders of magnitude more likely that the gun will get us out of a situation (that is already highly unlikely) than that we will be faced with a trauma situation.  I am all for people learning specialized skills if they enjoy that or feel they need them, but I think preparing for the common case first makes more sense for me given that I have limited time and budget.

[Chemsoldier]

I think all parties are right.

If you have not taken 1st aid and CPR, do that first.  If you have done that, this doesnt sound like a bad deal.

Reading the Suarez website on its medical courses, they suggest that there is plenty of repetition of applying the technique while under stress (I assume that is why you bring guns, ammo and airsoft to the course). This is excellent.  I have taken red cross first aid and red cross CPR many times and few gave you much repetition.  They give you the block of instruction, you demonstrate it, take a test and that is that (caveat, I have taken a CPR class where we got a lot of repetition on the dummies and extensive feedback on our technique, that one was excellent).  If this high repetition under stress format is used for this class, it is likely well worth it.

What is up with some SI fanboys and the AK platform though?  When I took my SI course, at lunch the cult of the AK came out and I got to listen to guys gushing about their AKs...these guys paid more for these custom AK builds than I paid for my AR!  Good on you boys for paying 2K+ for a rifle that is apparently very very reliable (as opposed to only very reliable) and shoots accurately to the limit of the cartridge (7.62x39).  more power to them, these are nice rifles...but talk about making the wheel rounder!  Sorry to rant, I really did like the course and would likely take another Suarez International course again.