rainier bullets require lighter loadings?

[Teamklr2bar]

I just purchased a small bulk of Rainier 124gr 9mm JHP (x500)  As I looked over their website http://www.rainierballistics.com

I noticed that they indicated that due to the plating process that they use their bullets are softer than normal jacketed bullets and you should use lead reloading data.  I just loaded some to ~1000 fps.  I didn't have any specific data so I backed down to right at the 1000fps range.  Any ideas on this?  I have also noticed that they are soft enough that the feed ramp into my M&P9 (it is polished) will deform the tip slightly as it chambers when I manually cycle the slide.  Anyone have any experience with these? I got them from Cabellas at a decent deal.  I don't usually buy loading components but they had a deal so I tried them...

[Devereaux]

I shot IPSC for a number of years, shooting a .38 Super which I loaded using a 130 gr RN Ranier bullet. My chrono velocity was 1440 fps. I had no problems with them, either infeeding or in accuracy - at least as much accuracy as IPSC needs. On the occasions that I was just practicing on a square range, they grouped fine.

[Devereaux]

IIRC the reason lead is loaded to lesser velcities is that it will melt and lead your barrel at higher velocities. But in pistols that isn't much of a problem, as you rarely get to such velocities. You can also cast harder bullets (talk to Jim Fleming about how, etc - he the casting dude) so there is less of this issue.

Raniers will shoot like lead in that they will conform to the barrel better than jacketed, but don't have some of the downside of lead.

[Teamklr2bar]

Dev,    thanks  i am going to try them out this week sometime and i will report back.

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[Blackwing Shooter]

I have shot about 4000 rounds of Reiner 124 grn 9 mm out of my Glock. I load them to be a bit under 1000 ft/second and have never had an issue. The rule of thumb that I have come to with plated bullets is to stay at 10% below a power factor. If the recipe calls for 4 gains of powder "x" for 1000 Ft/second I would load at 3.8 grains and test for issues. If your bullets starts to separate lead from plating the you have over charged. 
I love the loads that I have come up with Reiner, they make a great product.

[Mudcat]

I have loaded many of the Rainier and Berrys plated bullets. I like them myself and their lower costs. I have been thinking about starting to cast my own lead bullets but have not taken the plunge as of yet. I load the plated bullets to 127,000 power factor usually without any problems.

[Devereaux]

Yeah, well I was loading clean off the charts, but that's what you had to do back in the bad old days of IPSC. You won't find my loads in any manual. BUT they still behaved well (sorry, Jim - not recommending anyone do what I did. Just sayin'). Clean holes in the paper, knocked down steel, worked the comp  nicely.

[Teamklr2bar]

Let me ask what the signs you noticed that indicated you were too hot without doing a water/gelatin test?

[Devereaux]

You need to understand that I was loading for competition. In those days you had to make a power factor of, IIRC, 170, which was suppose to be a ball .45 ACP fired from a Commander-length barrel. So I was loading merely to insure that I had major power factor, with enough cushion to allow for the cold days when your velocity would be slower (by a surprising amount). That meant that you needed >1300 fps for a 130 gr bullet. My guns (2) just shot well at those loads.

?Did my cases show signs of pressure. Some. I got some primer flattening, but no case bulging, nor splitting, nor primer flow, nor displacement of the primer. I have reloaded the same case about 4 times in some instances (you can tell by the number of ejector hits on the back of the case). No issues.

[Jim Fleming]

Ammo loaded like that makes me cringe nowadays...

You need to understand that I was loading for competition. In those days you had to make a power factor of, IIRC, 170, which was suppose to be a ball .45 ACP fired from a Commander-length barrel. So I was loading merely to insure that I had major power factor, with enough cushion to allow for the cold days when your velocity would be slower (by a surprising amount). That meant that you needed >1300 fps for a 130 gr bullet. My guns (2) just shot well at those loads.

?Did my cases show signs of pressure. Some. I got some primer flattening, but no case bulging, nor splitting, nor primer flow, nor displacement of the primer. I have reloaded the same case about 4 times in some instances (you can tell by the number of ejector hits on the back of the case). No issues.

[Devereaux]

If you do the math (I hate to introduce that subject in yet another thread) you find that it is in the .357 mag region. .38 Super is pretty hot all by itself, but usually it doesn't get faster than about 1200 fps.

Pretty much all the IPSC shooters of the era did what I did. In our defense, the guns were built quite strongly, with stuff like solid locking lugs under the barrel, and, of course, a ramped barrel. I once recollect an article in American Handgunner criticizing what we all did then, as being over the top in pressure and so dangerous. While that may be technically true, I don't believe I have ever heard of an IPSC gun blowing up because of the loads. Guys who shot those all had "race guns" and they seemed to stand up to that kind of beating. And, boy, did the comps work well!

I'm not advocating doing what we did then. I only spoke of this because there was a question of how well Ranier would stand up to beating - they are quite well at that.

[Teamklr2bar]

Great info, thanks guys!  I ran about 150 of them over the last two days that were loaded to about 1000 - 1050 fps (according to load data) and they seemed to perform just fine.  I did run into some feeding problems but as I have talked in another thread I attribute that to the magazine springs on my 2 original m&p mags, the new one had no problems.