Episode 162 - Pistol Packing Preacher, Glock 32 Review and Listener Feedback

[Bob Mayne]

Many thanks for Mark in Houston and Pastor Russell Harris for their contributions.  Also many thanks the listeners who sent in emails. 

Links:

www.robarguns.com
www.gripreductions.com
http://www.southwestshootingauthority.com/612600.html
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/UYHIrUYRiBk&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/UYHIrUYRiBk&rel=0</a>

[NS2]

Which shotgun was he using for this?

What type of choke?  Is it an improved barrel type such as a Vang barrel?

[Dr John Meade]

Which shotgun was he using for this?

What type of choke?  Is it an improved barrel type such as a Vang barrel?

I use that same load exclusively in my short barreled Saiga shotgun, and get hits that are just about that good. The Flite Control cup Federal uses is really amazing.

[NS2]

Which shotgun was he using for this?

What type of choke?  Is it an improved barrel type such as a Vang barrel?

I use that same load exclusively in my short barreled Saiga shotgun, and get hits that are just about that good. The Flite Control cup Federal uses is really amazing.

I don't doubt the performance of the Federal Flight Control cup loads.  That is good stuff!

What I wanted to bring up through my question was the topic of patterning with your defense loads before you use them for real SD situations.  Because shotguns and shotgun barrels can vary widely, I think it is important for the end user to take the time to pattern every load intended for SD use.  This way he/she can know for certain how the load performs in their specific gun.  Yes, it costs a bit of money and it takes a bit of time, but it is one of several very important steps to using a shotgun as a fighting tool.

Essentially, just because that shotgun, or another shotgun patterned that way, does not automatically mean another end user's gun will do the same.

Thanks,

[Bob Mayne]

Scott, very good point.  Everyone should pattern their shotgun.  There is a misconception that all shotguns pattern the same.  I've been using the Federal Flite Control exclusively for defensive purposes too.  I did get 2 different patterns out of two different Remington 870's, smooth cylinder bore barrel, 18".

As a side note, I'm considering getting the Vang Comp job done to one of my 870's.  I wonder how that will pattern after that? Using the Flite Control load?

[NS2]

Scott, very good point.  Everyone should pattern their shotgun.  There is a misconception that all shotguns pattern the same.  I've been using the Federal Flite Control exclusively for defensive purposes too.  I did get 2 different patterns out of two different Remington 870's, smooth cylinder bore barrel, 18".

As a side note, I'm considering getting the Vang Comp job done to one of my 870's.  I wonder how that will pattern after that? Using the Flite Control load?

I have one 870 with the full Vang Comp System and one with the factory choke system.  The Vang gun patterns routinely patterns at 50% of the size of the regular gun.  The comp really helps with follow up shots as well.

[Devereaux]

Which, of course, brings up the question of why more SD pistols aren't comped. This would be especially useful in such rounds as the .40 S&W and the .357 Sig, both quite high pressure rounds, so well suited to a comp. The recoil of a comped gun is radically different than one that is not. In situations were multiple hits on the same target are useful, a comp makes controlling the muzzle flip that much easier, so follow up shots that much easier.

[Bob Mayne]

True, the only complaint I've heard about that is that they produce a huge muzzle flash!  Especially in .357sig.

[Devereaux]

I hear that from time to time, but don't really see that it's a problem. Let's remember that IPSC guys have fired that type of gun for YEARS in square range settings, which would be conducive to producing issues with muzzle flash. Then there is the issue of night shooting. However, there is a general recommendation by pretty much everyone that you should have a light with your weapon, so ?how does that influence night vision. ?Why is that not an issue, but alleged muzzle flash is.

I suspect this is another myth without data to back that up as a real problem.

[NS2]

I hear that from time to time, but don't really see that it's a problem. Let's remember that IPSC guys have fired that type of gun for YEARS in square range settings, which would be conducive to producing issues with muzzle flash. Then there is the issue of night shooting. However, there is a general recommendation by pretty much everyone that you should have a light with your weapon, so ?how does that influence night vision. ?Why is that not an issue, but alleged muzzle flash is.

I suspect this is another myth without data to back that up as a real problem.

Sure..........You can use a compensated pistol for SD or HD, but show up with an EBR and get flayed for it in court.

I wonder if using a compensated gun would have the same ill effects on your prosecution as using an EBR???

[Mudcat]

Great podcast Bob. I like the pistol packing preacher. I shoot IDPA with a preacher he has made similar comments to me about why he carries and when he would consider using deadly force.

As for comps, I would not want one in a EDC, not because of the flash but because you may be in a very close person to person situation when you need to use your gun. In a close retention situation the hot gasses could cause some serious damage to you.

[Devereaux]

Yeah, NS2, there are really strange cncepts running around this nation. Best bet would be to repeal ALL the gun laws and let people do what they wish. Fat chance.

As for not carrying one, Mudcat, you should shoot one first before taking such a sweeping position. There is NO weapon that doesn't have some drawback. Your reason strikes me as highly unlikely, while putting a second shot (or third or fourth) on target is far more likely, and comps make it a great deal easier.

[Mudcat]

Highly unlikely yes, is it highly unlikely that one of us right here in this thread will be in a gunfight, yes. Is it still possible? Yes. No one knows when or where their gunfight will be if we did we would just stay home that day. A lot of gun fights occur in a up close and personal position more so than occur at 20'+. It would be nice if we could stop them before they are that close, but that is just not possible all the time. I know being alert can stop a lot of the chances for close range confrontation but again not all. I also know that a lot of people who know a lot more about this sort of stuff than you or I realize this as well. Shooting from retention is taught at many training facilities, some even offer close range gun fighting as a separate course. For instance Suarez International and ICE. For that reason I continue to practice close range fighting skills just as I practice putting enough shots on target to stop a threat quickly. A proper grip will help the average shooter more than a compensator will in this skill set.

A nice drill that I like to do for practicing multiple shot drills is to take a pepper popper lean it forward to where it takes some considerable effort to push it back over. Stand back starting at 5 yards draw, then rapid fire in succession to walk the pepper popper over backwards, I like to have it set to where it takes 12-15 good shots in quick rapid succession to drive it over.  If you happen to miss one it will start to come back forward and then it starts over. If you are shooting too slow you will not create enough energy to push it over backwards. If you are not making head shots it will not have enough energy to drive it over. When I get to where I can drive it over easily at that distance I back up to 7 yards and then father out. Then try doing it while moving. Give it a shot it is a great drill.

[Kimerazor]

For multiple shots on target, a friend showed me that gripping the gun more loosely will allow the gun to naturally come back in line v. trying to "hold" the gun down with a tighter grip.  I was double-tapping a small steel target at 30 yards (not feet) 5 out of 6 times with my compact 40.

All due to his instruction.  Of course, if you only put 50 rounds through your pistol every six months, you're not going to be able to do this.  Training, not gadgets is the key.

[Jon Payne]

I'm with Mudcat on the whole compensated pistol thing, but my mind can be changed.  Hey Dev, get a comped pistol and video yourself shooting it from various retention positions.  If I could see that with no ill-effects I might just re-think the whole comp vs. un-comped on a self-defense pistol.