Lever Action Rifle Question - 45 Colt Wadcutter

[Tennessee Jed]

I've got a question that might not be answerable without buying a rifle first, but if an answer exists, I'll bet people here might know.

I've got a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt, and I've come to REALLY like the RimRock 225 grain flat wadcutter bullet in it.  It's a flat bullet, and with my handloads it is pushing around 1050 - 1100 fps.  This load roughly duplicates the Buffalo Bore "anti-personnel" round (http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=269).

So, my question is, with that big, flat wadcutter bullet, is there any chance I might be able to pair up with a lever action rifle in 45 Colt that would reliably feed it?  My guess is probably not, because I've read many complaints about bullet shapes such as semi-wadcutters having problems in lever actions, but thought I would at least seek some wisdom here, where lever actions are loved. 

   

[Charlie Foxtrot]

TJ;

I'll post your question on the SASS website. That board contains many acknowledged Western firearms experts and 'smiths.  

Until then, I'll give you my decidedly non-expert opinion.

The best feeding levers, without a doubt, are the Winchester 1860, '66 and '73 designs. The round is always parallel to the bore, is never tipped, and is held horizontal on the carrier until the breech face/ operating rod pushes it into the chamber.  I've heard of a '73 feeding a magazine of empty shells. That being said, the toggle-link design of these levers is relatively weak, and your hot loads would batter the mechanism. No one will recommend their use in an early Winchester.  

The Marlin 1894 and the Winchester '92 and '94s are hell for stout, but they all tip the cartridge and depend somewhat on the bullet ogive to guide the round into the chamber. I would think a wadcutter would be a pretty big pill to swallow. The Marlin would be the best bet, then the '92.

What about some other bullet design?  Many "friendlier" designs out there at 225 - 250, even 300 grains.  

[Charlie Foxtrot]

   
I posted your question in this SASS Forum thread

Responses range from No to HELL NO!!!, with an occasional faint Maybe. 

Reliability seems to be the biggest concern.  You can do it - but you probably can't do it every time.  Say you get the attention of of a 600 pound Bruin, you're going to want 99.999% reliability for those follow-on shots.  Either that, or a much slower buddy. 

May I recommend Bear Creek Bullets' fine selection of .45 bullets? 

[Devereaux]

CF gave you good skinny, TJ. Just looking at the bullet, I would wonder if it would feed into ANY rifle - those kinds of bullets don't lend themselves to feed well outside of specialty handguns that target shoot and revolvers.

.45 Colt is a bit hard to find rifles that come in that chambering. You can find Marlins, and you can find things like the Puma, which is kind of a 92. The replica 66 and 73 are Uberti, and I don't think they would tolerate quite such a load, although I do have to say that the original 76 was kind of a fancy 73, and that came in .45-70 (black, though) and I think .40-60. The actions are toggle locked, so they don't stand up to pounding like the later Browning designs, or the way Marlin approached lock-up. So you can shoot the hulking loads in .45-70 in a modern 86 or a Marlin (or something like the Ruger Single Shot), but no one wants to shoot those in the older toggle designs.

My limited experience with Marlins is that they shoot pretty well if you get a smith to set them up for the round that you want to shoot. Guess that could be said for many levers - they don't quite eat everything, but can often be made to.

[Tennessee Jed]

Charlie and Dev,

Thanks so much for your responses.  I got quite a kick out of that thread on the SASS Wire, thanks for taking time to ask the question Charlie.  I laughed out loud at the response on the SASS Wire that went something like "Why pollute our forum with questions such as this?"  I guess I'm just that sort of guy. 

I thought the idea might be a no-go, but thought it was at least worth considering.  I've only recently discovered the joys of full wadcutters, and have started doing some research on the bullet type, especially in the bigger calibers.  Jim Cirillo sure liked wadcutters in the old days.  In 45 Colt, they make a HUGE hole in paper targets, and I'm enough of a neanderthal to enjoy that by itself ("Small hole, bad.  Big hole, gooooood").  I thought it would be awesome if I could have such fun with a rifle.  I do plan on checking out those Bear Creek Bullets, Charlie.  Thanks again, and if you feel so inclined, please give my regards to the SASS Wire for their assistance as well.


Thanks,

TN Jed
 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Quick note (at work):

Lever action rounds MUST use a flat point bullet or a very, very rounded one to prevent chain fires in the mag tube.  You DON'T want the bullet point resting on the primer of the next round.  I load truncated cone - flat point bullets (Colorado Cast Bullets) in our .38 Lever loads.  They feed like gang-busters in the Win '66 and Marlin. 

I've seen the results of a mag chain fire in a '73. Not pretty. The shooter used round nose bullets - just not rounded enough. 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

  
No prob TJ; always happy to help another Leverite.

The SASS forums are great: almost as good as the GRRN forums. Only because these forums are somehow even broader than the SASS forums.  Although -- it's a close run thing...

No worries about Garrison Joe's comment: know him, a truly great guy.  I believe he was actually wryly commenting on the SASS board. If you check again, your question's thread has developed a life of it's own, as GJ obviously expected. It's a closely held secret, but SASS is actually a debating society, with each member mandated to hold and defend dearly at least three conflicting opinions on every subject.    Makes for interesting times.  

BTW, the World's leading Marlin lever mechanic, Widowmaker Hill (Widder), replied to your question. I love that Forum!

[Devereaux]

 
No prob TJ; always happy to help another Leverite.

The SASS forums are great: almost as good as the GRRN forums. Only because these forums are somehow even broader than the SASS forums.  Although -- it's a close run thing...

No worries about Garrison Joe's comment: know him, a truly great guy.  I believe he was actually wryly commenting on the SASS board. If you check again, your question's thread has developed a life of it's own, as GJ obviously expected. It's a closely held secret, but SASS is actually a debating society, with each member mandated to hold and defend dearly at least three conflicting opinions on every subject.    Makes for interesting times.  

BTW, the World's leading Marlin lever mechanic, Widowmaker Hill (Widder), replied to your question. I love that Forum!

LOL! +1

[Tennessee Jed]

That was pretty cool.