Episode 175 - Risk vs. Reward

[Bob Mayne]

I got together with Ben Branam to discuss the risks and rewards of concealed carry. We discussed concealed carry methods, range practice, safety rules, real life self defense gunfights and more. This show is released early due to the large number of voice mails I’ve received from listeners. So I will be releasing the voice mail podcast next Monday or Tuesday. Thanks for downloading and listening.

Use this thread for comments and question.  There are a couple of links I will post a little later, I don't have them right now.

[CR Williams]

Couple of notes about things referenced in the podcast:

Weaver stance - came out of the shooting competitions Cooper was part of in the 50s and 60s.

Applegate - learned his point shooting from Fairbairn, of Shanghai Police fame. The system is sometimes referred to as FAS, Fairbairn-Applegate-Sykes. Sykes was a contemporary of Fairbairn's.

Applegate and Cooper had much different experiences as far as fighting and shooting people, especially with pistols, in WWII.

Also, Cooper practiced and recommended point shooting at one time pre-Gunsite/MT. In his book Fighting Handguns, published 1958, the Colonel refers to it as 'Pointer Fire'. He also states that one of the Bear Valley Gunslingers won the first two or three competitions they ran by point shooting. Cooper and others of the Bear Valley/Orange Gunsite era could point shoot very well, if I remember my readings correctly.

[Bob Mayne]

Thank you.

[ExpatBen]

That's an awesome memory Mr Williams!  I didn't know the weaver stance was that old, I just know it took forever for law enforcement to pick it up.  I didn't know Applegate learned his point shooting technique from Fairbairn.  The books I read by Applegate while in the Marine Corps didn't mention where he learned the techniques from (but the Marine Corps was never good at giving sources). 

Thanks for the info!

[Bob Mayne]

Ben, you need to make more posts, so your status doesn't say "newbie" anymore.   

[CR Williams]

The books I read by Applegate while in the Marine Corps didn't mention where he learned the techniques from (but the Marine Corps was never good at giving sources).

Memory says that Applegate was sent to Europe to train with the Commandos and their infiltrators (the ones that went in to work with the Resistance in Europe), can't remember what they called that group, and worked with Fairbairn then. Also, IIRC, Fairbairn was brought over for a while to work with the OSS instructor cadre when the OSS was being established.

Again working from memory, Cooper and the Bear Valley Gunslingers started running their research competitions in the mid-fifties. Sometime relatively soon after the Colonel had regained control of Gunsite, if I read and recall my reading of the Commentaries correctly, Cooper decided he had learned what he needed to learn about fighting with handguns and moved on to his original and primary love and passion, the study of the rifle.

If you want to see point shooting as it has been taken into the modern day and age, then Roger Phillips is the man for that.

[Kimerazor]

In reference to releasing the safety of 1911's (or my HK USP Compact V1), I release the safety after I rotate the pistol 90 deg toward my target.  I don't do it while the barrel is pointed at the ground.


NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

[Bob Mayne]

I've heard various ways of doing it.  Whatever works for you, but your method seems best for 1911 carriers.

[Mudcat]

In reference to releasing the safety of 1911's (or my HK USP Compact V1), I release the safety after I rotate the pistol 90 deg toward my target.  I don't do it while the barrel is pointed at the ground.


NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

This is what I was taught when I shot them old timey guns. lol JK

[ExpatBen]

There's a hundred ways out there to release the safety, I was just taught to do it on count one of a three count draw when I obtain my grip, release the retention and flip of the safety as it comes out of the holster.  It's just always worked for me.  As long as you do it the same time and the same way every time, you should be good.  Just keep practicing. 

I carried a 1911 for about 7 years and don't recall ever missing pushing the safety off.  But the 1911 was the only gun I carried and trained with for those years.