Remington 700 SPS in 300 WinMag

[Panhead Bill]

Just got back from our local Friends of the NRA dinner & auction, where I won a Remington 700 SPS in 700 WinMag. Any thoughts or reviews on that rifle/caliber combination? 

Also, i know it's usually said that you should spend as much on the scope as you did on the rifle, but since the rifle cost me a $20 raffle ticket (ok, several), but that won't get me much. What's a decent introductory-priced (read: inexpensive) scope that would work? 

I'll be using this rifle hopefully as my intro into hunting. What kind of game is the 300 WinMag capable of taking humanely, generally?

Now I've gotta wait 10 days to get it out of "jail" - CA really sucks sometimes!

Thanks,

Bill

[Kimerazor]

That caliber will allow you to take many species humanely.  Whitetail to moose. "Inexpensive" to you may be expensive to me.  With that said, I would view your situation differently.  $20, 40, etc for the rifle, & you have more money to spend on a better scope.  Still money doesn't grow on trees.

I like Leupold & Nikon scopes.  Zeiss has never been in my price range. 

If you happen to be a Certified hunter safety instructor, many of these companies offer good discounts through IHEA.

Congratulations!


NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

[Devereaux]

Congratulations! .300 WinMag is a GREAT calibre. Think of it as a .30-'06 on steroids. You shoot the same .308 bullet, but the case holds about 72 gr of powder, as opposed to about 41 for a .30-'06.

As for what you can shoot, it would be most all but really dangerous North American game. And even then, if you are a good shot, you could take grizzley. I would personally prefer a .375 H&H, but that's me.

I am personally a Leupold user. I have found over the years that these old eyes seem to have far less strain when I spend time behind glass with Leupold than with other brands in the regular human price range. I can't afford Nightforce, so I can't speak to such.

Send some money on the scope - it will pay you back over the years, and you WILL keep it and the rifle for years.

[Alex Haddox]

Congratulations on the win! I wish I could be so lucky...


I use my Browning 300 WinMag with a Nikon Monarch 3x9 scope for all of my boar hunting. Took a 300+ pounder at 150 yards with a 165 gr bullet. Dropped him in his tracks.

300 WinMag is a great and versatile caliber.

You must also consider your rings and mount. The standard is Leupold.

Here is what I spent a few years ago:
- Leupold rings and mount: $250
- Scope: $250

If you plan on hunting with it, I highly recommend NOT getting a muzzle-break (kick is nasty, but you won't be firing enough shots to make it worthwhile) and invest in electronic hearing protection.

[Doc Wesson]

As they have said.. that pretty near is one of the best cartridges out there.  Take any North American game.. and then stretched into other continents. 

[Panhead Bill]

Thanks guys for all the replies. One more question - I haven't had time to do much research into the value of the 700, how does it compare, cost-wise, to the Ruger Gunsite Scout?  I know they're two totally different rifles, but I've been eyeballing the Scout for awhile now, just been short in the cash department.

They had a Ruger Scout at my local gunshop last time I was there, and the thought crossed my mind last night to see if they'd be willing to trade the 700 for the Scout. Would that be a fair/reasonable trade?  I like the 700 that I won, but it's not something that I would've bought if I had the money (at least not right now), while the Scout was top on my list of rifles to buy (right after an AR). Heck, I don't even know if they still have the Scout, much less that they'd be willing to trade if the values are comparable - just thinking here.

Thanks,

Bill

[Devereaux]

OK. I believe your model is the one with the 26" barrel and the recoil pad on the stock. ?Y or N.

I have a .300 WinMag as a Winchester Model 70, rather than Remington. I HAD also a Remington 700 in .30-'06 and ended up selling it despite putting a new barrel on it, as I felt the Win Model 70 was a lot more rifle for the same calibre, and I am a BIG fan of .30-'06 (as opposed to the .308 Win or the 7.62 NATO).

I don't think you can compare a Scout to what you have. Kind of like comparing an AR to a Barrett - two different animals. If you really MUST have the Scout, then save up and buy it. But you will go a long way to replace the ability you have in the .300 WinMag.

But each of us is different. If you must, talk to your gunstore and see what they are willing to do. I think the MSRP is about $200 higher for the Ruger Scout than the Remington 700, but I am not totally sure about those numbers.

[Panhead Bill]

Thanks for the input Dev. I understand that I'm comparing apples to oranges with the two different rifles. My thoughts were, however, that between the two rifles, the Ruger Scout would be most likely to see more use now, given my current situation. However, the 700 may be just the thing to push me into taking the first steps towards the hunting I've always wanted to do.

Thanks,

Bill

[haskovez]

I have a .300 WinMag as a Winchester Model 70, rather than Remington. I HAD also a Remington 700 in .30-'06 and ended up selling it despite putting a new barrel on it, as I felt the Win Model 70 was a lot more rifle for the same calibre, and I am a BIG fan of .30-'06 (as opposed to the .308 Win or the 7.62 NATO).

Just out of curiosity (and not to derail this), but why do you prefer .30-06 to .308?  I was under the impression that the .308 was designed to mimic the .30-06 round with a smaller case?  I am just curious for your preference, I only own .30-06 (my Garand), but I was always under the impression that .308 and .30-06 will pretty much do the same thing for you and behave very similar either way.

[Devereaux]

The .308 Win, or more particularly the 7.62 NATO, came about after the war. We had captured the MG42 and found it a wonderful design for a machine gun. But it needed a short case, so the engineers went to the military and said that they were making a short case for what became the M60. The answer from the generals was something to the effect, "You can do what you want - as long as we get the .30 calibre round." So as you note, the 7.62 was designed to be a .30-'06 in a short case. It turns out that the shoulder dimensions were better than the .30-'06 for accuracy, but that was by accident as we really didn't know much about rocket nozzles at the time.

My issue is that I tend to like the longer case frames. It leaves the cases longer and thinner, and I feel that is easier to deal with. So I own a .300 WinMag, but no short mags. The other aspect of the .30-'06 that I like is the case itself. It holds a significantly larger amount of powder. You look in the books you find one of THE largest selection of bullet/powder combinations about. So you can shoot anything from a 110 gr bullet all the way up to a 220 gr. You won't find that in pretty much any other round.

Lot of people are 7mm Mag fans. However, again, if you go to the books, you find that the bullet speeds are only about 100 fps faster, and there are a WHOLE LOT LESS bullet weight selection.

So from a purely versatility point of view, I think it is hard to beat the .30-'06. One thing you have to watch, though, is your barrel twist vs bullet weight. While the Garand was meant to shoot a 165 gr bullet I believe, the barrel has a 1:10 twist, a remnant of the old .30-40 Krag. So it will inherently shoot a heavier bullet better. But you have to get the adjustable gas plug to keep the gun from beating itself up with such ammo. Not expensive at Midway. You look at serious target Garands, they have a 1:13 twist barrel (like Kreiger).

[haskovez]

So from a purely versatility point of view, I think it is hard to beat the .30-'06. One thing you have to watch, though, is your barrel twist vs bullet weight. While the Garand was meant to shoot a 165 gr bullet I believe, the barrel has a 1:10 twist, a remnant of the old .30-40 Krag. So it will inherently shoot a heavier bullet better. But you have to get the adjustable gas plug to keep the gun from beating itself up with such ammo. Not expensive at Midway. You look at serious target Garands, they have a 1:13 twist barrel (like Kreiger).

Thanks for the response that sort of answers my question of why you prefer it.  I believe the Garand is setup to shoot a 150 gr bullet by default actually, as all of the surplus M2 Ball that I buy is 150 gr.  That being said Hornady makes a round that is 168gr (sold by the CMP) that apparently is supposed to be a very accurate round out of the Garand, maybe going with what you said about the barrel actually preferring the heavier bullet.  From what I have read if you actually want to sight in the Garand to have the bullets work with the ranges on the site you need to stay in the 150-155 gr range.  But when I got some coaching for CMP shooting with my Garand the instructor actually said ignore and don't use those, just count the number of clicks from the bottom and learn your ranges ahead of time based on x clicks at each range.

[Panhead Bill]

Continuing the thread derailment - where does the 300 WinMag fit in the scale with 30-06 and 308?

- If you'll pardon the dumb question.

Bill

[Charlie Foxtrot]

 
In this Wikipedia article, energy and velocity of the various popular .30 caliber cartridges are compared. 

It looks like the .300 WinMag brings a whole lot more energy (~30%) to the party. 

My shoulder doesn't like to go to those parties. 

[Panhead Bill]

Eh, it couldn't be any worse than my .44 mag carbine - that thing packs a punch, and leaves a reminder. Either way, I'm looking forward to shooting it!

Bill

[Devereaux]

Hask, you are undoubtedly right about the bullet weight. I only pulled that number out as a possible. Now I think of it, I believe the NATO round (7.62) is more like 147 or there about.

The 168 gr round was a Match King round used by snipers. It also comes in the .308, and the snipers in the jungle used that. The bullet is more a target round, but VERY accurate. But the Garand in general will shoot heavier bullets better because the twist is more in keeping with heavy bullets.

If you are interested, the story behind this is that the '03 Springfield was originally chambered in .30-40 Krag. Then the military got on board with the European (read German) .30 calibre round and the .30-'06 came into being. The arsenal just removed the old barrels, cur the chambers and rechambered for the new round - and voila! But the barrel twist was 1:10, in keeping with a 200 gr bullet. No one bothered to change it, and when the civies got a chance to make rifles in the "new" .30-'06 calibre, they just copied the military stuff. But talk to Kreiger, and they will tell you that the rifle shoots better with a 1:13 twist at the 150-170 range. Still, the Garand is no slouch overall in shooting capability.

CF, my Model 70 is actually easier to shoot on the shoulder than the Remi .30-'06 was. But the later had no recoil pad while the former does. Still, I have to say that shooting the .300 WinMag is really nice if you have an appropriate rifle. I happen to like the Winchester Model 70. I personally think the stock is better angled for shooting that sucker. And it IS accurate. And has a 26" barrel, so you get LOTS of velocity!

[Charlie Foxtrot]

   
Yep, here's to the man that invented recoil pads!

I put a wussie pad on my '97 splattergun after a 190 round all shotgun Cowboy death match.  And -- my shotgun shooting in regular matches improved dramatically. Gone was the slight unnoticed flinch that pulled many of my shots low. 

Here's to not getting beaten up unnecessarily! 

[Panhead Bill]

Well, I went to the gun shop yesterday and did the paperwork on my new model 700, and got to fondle the rifle a little bit. That's a NICE feeling rifle, with a big, soft recoil pad. And the trigger felt amazing.

I also opened up a box of .300 WinMag ammo to take a look, and for someone used to shooting .223 - that's a big-a$$ bullet!  I'm excited about picking this rifle up in - now 9 days. (did I mention CA sucks?)

Bill

[Charlie Foxtrot]

   
Kewl!

Chosen a scope yet?  Me likey the Weaver Tactical 50mm 3-15x Mil Dot.  Well respected scope that won't leave you crying -- too much. That's for a .308.  But, now that you're a Long Ranger, maybe the 4-20x variant is a better choice.

Let us know.

And yes, Kali sucks. Have you look at the anti-gun insanity that our Loonieslators are proposing? Apparently, they've got lots of time since the state is only $18.6 Billion in the hole -- so far -- this year -- that they've acknowledged -- after all the accounting tricks. Time to start writing letters -- again.     

[Panhead Bill]

Picked it up from the dealer today. Took it home and Slipstreamed the bolt. Then I got a chance to put a few rounds through it - sssswwwweeeettt.  Granted, I don't have a scope for it yet (low on funds), and it doesn't have fixed sights, so I set up a 5-gallon water jug about 30 yards away and "eye-balled" it   - took about 3 rounds to get it dialed in, then shot the water jug a good 40 feet in the air!  (fun for the kids to watch - yeah me too ).

Surprisingly, relatively low recoil. The recoil pad on the buttstock did an incredible job absorbing the recoil. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of accuracy she can pull off once I get it scoped.

More to come....Once I get her scoped in betting the kids'll be able to handle it. Photos will be posted soon!!

Bill

Bill

[Devereaux]

All rifles take a bit to properly break in. You should expect to shoot 100-300 rounds before you can truly tell just how accurate your rifle is. Custom barrels take less, but I have a Lilja barrel on one of my rifles, and that's about as smooth a barrel as you can get unfired, and THAT took about 50-60 rounds. Be patient. You will come to absolutely love the gun, the round, the performance.